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Homophobe Kern to face transgender challenger
By DAVID TAFFET I Staff Writer taffet@dallasvoice.com
Sep 3, 2009 - 10:10:06 PM
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| OKLAHOMA OK I When anti-gay Oklahoma state Rep. Sally Kern, pictured, runs for re-election in 2010, she will face transgender lawyer Brittany Novotny. Novotny plans to officially announce her candidacy in late September or early October. |
Kern won’t have to worry about that menace in her upcoming 2010 race for re-election. Her main opponent, Brittany Novotny, is not gay. She’s transgender.
Novotny is an Oklahoma City attorney who began a private practice in 2007 specializing in civil rights and employment law. She graduated from University of California – Hastings College of the Law in 2005 and lists herself as a member of Young Democrats of Oklahoma, legal adviser and vice chair of the women’s caucus. Recently, she began in-house counsel work with the American Federation of Government Employees, Local 916.
Novotny has not yet announced her candidacy for the Oklahoma House of Representatives.
Instead, she said by phone, “I’m exploring a run.”
She expects to make an announcement by the end of September or the beginning of October.
“We’re doing everything we can to run a credible campaign,” she said, implying the importance of ousting the incumbent.
Kern came to national attention last summer with her statement about gays and lesbians. “I honestly think it [homosexuality] is the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam,” Kern said.
The Journal Record, an Oklahoma City newspaper, suggested that Kern was either a spy from Texas or Sasha Baron Cohen. They argued that she was “harming Oklahoma’s economic development efforts and that her credibility as a legislator is so eroded that even her home district constituents must be looking at her performance askance.”
The newspaper reported that Brenda K. Jones, a Republican consultant, claimed that after her first statements about gays being worse than terrorists, two companies that were about to announce a move to Oklahoma changed their plans.
Novotny said that many people in the business community want Kern out of office.
Before doing interviews, though, Novotny said she wants to lay the groundwork and get her campaign staff in place. She said she has spoken to the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund and to former Oklahoma county commissioner Jim Roth, who is gay. The district borders that of state Rep., Al McAffrey, the only openly gay Democrat serving in the Oklahoma House.
Roth said Novotny has “a genuine understanding of the dignity intended for all citizens by our constitution. Her service will be a wonderful departure from the crazy, homophobic rantings of one-issue Sally Kern.”
He added, “I’ve known Brittney for years and I know she’s dedicated to growing jobs, improving schools and helping people.”
Novotny’s Web site has launched with just a home page and a link to donate and to her Facebook page. The Web site address is www.brittany4hd84.com.
On the home page, Novotny wrote, “...we need a representative who values all families in the district, who is dedicated to bringing good jobs to Oklahoma, and who will work tirelessly to make sure our children are getting the best education in our public schools. I believe I have the experience, drive, and determination to do that.”
Her Facebook page has links to articles about health care reform. Her first event is listed as a wine and cheese fundraiser on Sept. 18 in Norman, Okla.
Meanwhile, Kern continues to appear to cater to the extreme right-wing. In June, she issued her “Proclamation for Morality” declaring that the United States has become a “world leader in promoting abortion, pornography, same sex marriage, sex trafficking, divorce, illegitimate births, child abuse and many other forms of debauchery.”
Her proclamation misquoted the country’s founding fathers and advocated for unconstitutional takeover of government by religion and blamed the current economic crisis on immorality.
Novotny said that the filing deadline for her race is not until June 2010, and that a primary, if necessary, would be held sometime during the summer. She said that at this time she is not expecting to face any primary opponents.
This article appeared in the Dallas Voice print edition September 4, 2009.
© Copyright by DallasVoice.com
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The following comments were posted by readers and were not edited by Dallas Voice. When you comment, stay on topic and treat others with respect. Posts deemed offensive will be removed.
tjc1
Sep 04, 2009 at 08:57
Sep 04, 2009 at 08:57
I wish Brittany Novotny all the best, but let's not forget, one can be
transgender AND gay.
Dawn Meifert
Sep 04, 2009 at 09:04
Sep 04, 2009 at 09:04
If she runs she will be getting a financial donation from this house!
Bill
Sep 04, 2009 at 09:34
Sep 04, 2009 at 09:34
It is time to send Sally Kern back to the depths of Hell from which she was
created.
Good luck Brittany! God is on your side!!!!!
Good luck Brittany! God is on your side!!!!!
Hazumu Osaragi
Sep 04, 2009 at 10:23
Sep 04, 2009 at 10:23
*"let's not forget, one can be transgender AND gay."*
Okay, let's review. There are two dimensions. Heterosexual<->Homosexual is the Sexual Orientation dimension, Cisgender<->Transgender is the Gender Identity dimension. (We won't be considering Androgynity or Asexuality in this review.)
The combinations are:
Cisgender AND Heterosexual (most common)
Cisgender AND Homosexual (less common)
Transgender AND Heterosexual (rare)
Transgender AND Homosexual (rare)
Any questions?
Okay, let's review. There are two dimensions. Heterosexual<->Homosexual is the Sexual Orientation dimension, Cisgender<->Transgender is the Gender Identity dimension. (We won't be considering Androgynity or Asexuality in this review.)
The combinations are:
Cisgender AND Heterosexual (most common)
Cisgender AND Homosexual (less common)
Transgender AND Heterosexual (rare)
Transgender AND Homosexual (rare)
Any questions?
Jordan
Sep 04, 2009 at 11:14
Sep 04, 2009 at 11:14
Brittany is an old friend of mine. We began our transitions at the same
time and got to know each other though the OKC trans community. She's
brilliant and confident, compassionate and passionate about helping people.
The Universe will rejoice if she is elected in Kern's place!! That would
be an ENORMOUS positive change.
Also, Hazumu, not sure where you're getting that TG and Homosexual are rare, but in my extensive personal experience, transgender and heterosexual is the most rare combination. So yes, I have a question: where do you get your information? Transgender is also more common than cisgender, MUCH MUCH more common. Maybe you were confusing homosexual with heterosexual and cisgender with transgender? ;)
Cheers
Also, Hazumu, not sure where you're getting that TG and Homosexual are rare, but in my extensive personal experience, transgender and heterosexual is the most rare combination. So yes, I have a question: where do you get your information? Transgender is also more common than cisgender, MUCH MUCH more common. Maybe you were confusing homosexual with heterosexual and cisgender with transgender? ;)
Cheers
Maka
Sep 04, 2009 at 11:27
Sep 04, 2009 at 11:27
I am the (non-legal) wife of a transman and I will gladly support Novotny
in whatever way I can.
Coxygru
Sep 04, 2009 at 15:55
Sep 04, 2009 at 15:55
Hazumu,
Personally, I don't know if I'm cisgender or sis' gender. Does it make any dif'? Gee, those are tiny boxes...
When I wake up in the morning should I look in the mirror and ask myself how sis' or how cis' I'm feeling?
Personally, I don't know if I'm cisgender or sis' gender. Does it make any dif'? Gee, those are tiny boxes...
When I wake up in the morning should I look in the mirror and ask myself how sis' or how cis' I'm feeling?
Rob Barton
Sep 04, 2009 at 16:20
Sep 04, 2009 at 16:20
Very good news. I too would like to see this woman flushed back to the
depths from when she originated.
Micki
Sep 04, 2009 at 17:05
Sep 04, 2009 at 17:05
Where do I send my check?
David Morris
Sep 04, 2009 at 17:24
Sep 04, 2009 at 17:24
I will donate tonight so she will know she has the support she will need so
she can run please join me and go to
www.brittany4hd84.com
www.brittany4hd84.com
David Morris
Sep 04, 2009 at 17:27
Sep 04, 2009 at 17:27
or send a check to
brittany4hd84
PO box 374
Bethany Oklahoma 73008
brittany4hd84
PO box 374
Bethany Oklahoma 73008
Penny
Sep 04, 2009 at 18:51
Sep 04, 2009 at 18:51
@Jordan - Um.... sweetie? since "cis=-sexual/cis-gender" means Person who
is NOT trans, e.g. a woman born female who is perfectly content to be a
woman.... um.... yeah, cis WAAAAAAAAY outnumbers trans.
Hazumu Osaragi
Sep 04, 2009 at 22:05
Sep 04, 2009 at 22:05
Thank you, Penny, for setting helping Jordan (and the others) with their
understanding.
It seems that even in the Gay&Lesbian community, there's this misconception that Transsexual=Gay -- that male-to-female transsexuals are really gay men that are ashamed of being gay, so they make themselves over into women to deceive straight men -- at least, that's the locker-room myth.
So, my point was:
Gender Identity is separate from Sexual Orientation, and you are either content with the way you were born (Cisgender) or feel that some sort of horrible mistake was made and you really, really belong grouped with the other sex (Transgender).
Once you get Gender Identity sorted out, Sexual Orientation still applies. You can be attracted to/turned on by members of one sex, or the other.
Sadly, I think the cisgendered vast majority can't conceive of someone who is transsexual being straight. Whichever orientation they end up with, neither are considered straight.
It seems that even in the Gay&Lesbian community, there's this misconception that Transsexual=Gay -- that male-to-female transsexuals are really gay men that are ashamed of being gay, so they make themselves over into women to deceive straight men -- at least, that's the locker-room myth.
So, my point was:
Gender Identity is separate from Sexual Orientation, and you are either content with the way you were born (Cisgender) or feel that some sort of horrible mistake was made and you really, really belong grouped with the other sex (Transgender).
Once you get Gender Identity sorted out, Sexual Orientation still applies. You can be attracted to/turned on by members of one sex, or the other.
Sadly, I think the cisgendered vast majority can't conceive of someone who is transsexual being straight. Whichever orientation they end up with, neither are considered straight.
Margaret
Sep 05, 2009 at 07:11
Sep 05, 2009 at 07:11
Hello. I guess I am still considered transgendered, though I have been
female for several years. People of all stripes seem confused by the
Gender/Sex issue so here is my take on it: I am a woman, (now), and am
attracted to men so that makes me heterosexual, though when I was male and
attracted to men, I was gay. Remember this simple rule: Sex is between the
legs, Gender is between the ears.
Sue
Sep 05, 2009 at 22:30
Sep 05, 2009 at 22:30
I'm not LGTB but rather a Muslim and this hate filled woman needs to go. I
wish Novotny much success and will do my part in supporting her. Peace to
all. Remember, ONE LOVE.
Jan Baker
Sep 06, 2009 at 08:46
Sep 06, 2009 at 08:46
"Hateful" is not calling it like you see it. I myself agree with Kern (and
will contribute to her campaign) if she is saying that sexual behavior may
and must be evaluated, and may and must be evaluated in terms of its effect
on society, and that only heterosexual sexual unions founded with the
intention to reproduce the species pass the test. There never has been the
'freedom' in these matters, in any society, now being demanded as a right;
even societies which tolerated homosexual behavior still protected the
sustained unions of parents both legally and culturally, simply because
those unions and only these unions are any society's future paycheck.
Most Americans feel this way but do not wish to hurt feelings, nor do I. But it really must be said. Gay Rights sneaked in with the very valid civil rights movement, and it is time for it to go. We need real marriages conceiving children for our economy to recover. We're past the playing around stage, it's time to get serious.
Most Americans feel this way but do not wish to hurt feelings, nor do I. But it really must be said. Gay Rights sneaked in with the very valid civil rights movement, and it is time for it to go. We need real marriages conceiving children for our economy to recover. We're past the playing around stage, it's time to get serious.
FlexSF
Sep 06, 2009 at 11:02
Sep 06, 2009 at 11:02
It is amazing how one little person, Novotny, in the middle of the country
can change the face of a state, and region. She flies in the face of the
tired, hateful, religious republican mantra, that has asphyxiated a minimum
level of couth, and grace, in regards to how we treat our minorities.
Oklahoma has everything to gain, and nothing to lose, by voting out the
fear mongering homophobe, Sally Kern!
Danisnape
Sep 06, 2009 at 15:07
Sep 06, 2009 at 15:07
Jan,
come now. time to get serious you say.
how does having, in your words, "real marriages" and having more children help out economy?
if two lesbians or two gay men wish to have the same legal benefits that a heterosexual couple gets from marriage, shouldn't they have it? shouldnt' they be allowed to have hospital visitation? time off from work to care for their adopted children?
those who have opposed homosexuality in our culture range from those who oppose the legal recognition of their relationships, those who wish to ban homosexuals from teaching children due to a misconception that they all are child abusers, to those who are calling outright for the death penalty for homosexuals.
If you truly want to get serious, truly let the gays live equally under the law. You might be surprised once you see how many of them will adopt and raise families (once the laws banning them from adopting are lifted).
come now. time to get serious you say.
how does having, in your words, "real marriages" and having more children help out economy?
if two lesbians or two gay men wish to have the same legal benefits that a heterosexual couple gets from marriage, shouldn't they have it? shouldnt' they be allowed to have hospital visitation? time off from work to care for their adopted children?
those who have opposed homosexuality in our culture range from those who oppose the legal recognition of their relationships, those who wish to ban homosexuals from teaching children due to a misconception that they all are child abusers, to those who are calling outright for the death penalty for homosexuals.
If you truly want to get serious, truly let the gays live equally under the law. You might be surprised once you see how many of them will adopt and raise families (once the laws banning them from adopting are lifted).
Nicole Hatch
Sep 06, 2009 at 16:56
Sep 06, 2009 at 16:56
Reply to Jan Baker:
Never have I read such crazy logic in my life. Sexuality and sexual behavior must be evaluated? By who??? The Southern Baptist Convention?
You are saying that only heterosexual marriages have a positive effect on society and the economy because it allows for procreation. Shall we annul the marriages of infertile heterosexuals or heterosexual women past menapause or couples who choose not to have children?
"Gay Rights sneaked in with the very valid civil rights movement, and it is time for it to go." That comment exposes the real truth behind your objection to Gay Marriage. In short, you do not believe in civil rights at all for gay people. That, my friend, is called bigotry and homophobia and I feel that hate-filled and ignorant pseudoreligious thinking needs evaluation and is much more damaging to society than two same sex people who love each other and want a committment ceremony.
Never have I read such crazy logic in my life. Sexuality and sexual behavior must be evaluated? By who??? The Southern Baptist Convention?
You are saying that only heterosexual marriages have a positive effect on society and the economy because it allows for procreation. Shall we annul the marriages of infertile heterosexuals or heterosexual women past menapause or couples who choose not to have children?
"Gay Rights sneaked in with the very valid civil rights movement, and it is time for it to go." That comment exposes the real truth behind your objection to Gay Marriage. In short, you do not believe in civil rights at all for gay people. That, my friend, is called bigotry and homophobia and I feel that hate-filled and ignorant pseudoreligious thinking needs evaluation and is much more damaging to society than two same sex people who love each other and want a committment ceremony.
Micki
Sep 06, 2009 at 22:34
Sep 06, 2009 at 22:34
Jan,
The former head of the Anglican Church in Southern Africa made these statements at the launching of the book "Sex, Love & Homophobia", published by Amnesty International UK. Mr Tutu has written the foreword to the human rights group's book.
- We struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about; our very skins, wrote the prominent Church leader. "It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given," he added.
Mr Tutu says he could not have fought against the discrimination of apartheid and not also fight against the discrimination which homosexuals endure. "And I am proud that in South Africa, when we won the chance to build our own new constitution, the human rights of all have been explicitly enshrined in our laws," he said, adding that he hoped this soon would also be the case in other countries.
South Africa is so far the only country in the world where the constitution guarantees equal rights non-regarding sexual orientation. This is in stark contrast to most of South Africa's neighbour countries, where homosexulality often is punished by the penal code. Only recenty, a Botswana High Court ruling reaffirmed this legal practice.
- Yet, all over the world, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are persecuted, writes Archbishop Tutu. "We treat them as pariahs and push them outside our communities. We make them doubt that they too are children of God - and this must be nearly the ultimate blasphemy. We blame them for what they are," he adds.
He also regrets the dominant view among his church colleagues. "Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical, the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act - the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reason have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?" Mr Tutu asks.
The former head of the Anglican Church in Southern Africa made these statements at the launching of the book "Sex, Love & Homophobia", published by Amnesty International UK. Mr Tutu has written the foreword to the human rights group's book.
- We struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about; our very skins, wrote the prominent Church leader. "It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given," he added.
Mr Tutu says he could not have fought against the discrimination of apartheid and not also fight against the discrimination which homosexuals endure. "And I am proud that in South Africa, when we won the chance to build our own new constitution, the human rights of all have been explicitly enshrined in our laws," he said, adding that he hoped this soon would also be the case in other countries.
South Africa is so far the only country in the world where the constitution guarantees equal rights non-regarding sexual orientation. This is in stark contrast to most of South Africa's neighbour countries, where homosexulality often is punished by the penal code. Only recenty, a Botswana High Court ruling reaffirmed this legal practice.
- Yet, all over the world, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are persecuted, writes Archbishop Tutu. "We treat them as pariahs and push them outside our communities. We make them doubt that they too are children of God - and this must be nearly the ultimate blasphemy. We blame them for what they are," he adds.
He also regrets the dominant view among his church colleagues. "Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical, the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act - the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reason have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?" Mr Tutu asks.
Penny
Sep 07, 2009 at 05:34
Sep 07, 2009 at 05:34
Sorry Jan, but no one is buying the snakeoil you're selling. Anti- gay
rights combatants like you and psycho Kern cannot come up with any valid
proof for the homosexuality-will-destroy-everything argument, nor can any
of yiou nutcases come up with ONE SINGLE SOLITARY REASON for your hatred
and bigotry NOT BASED ON RELIGIOUS MANTRA.
So I'll tell you what. Sell your daughter into slavery, and stone your neighbor to death if he works on the Sabbath, because your goddamn bible COMMANDS you to, whereas the quotes most often used to justify homophobic bigotry have nothing to do with homosexuality at all.
Goddamn hypocrites, every one of you bible-thumpers.
So I'll tell you what. Sell your daughter into slavery, and stone your neighbor to death if he works on the Sabbath, because your goddamn bible COMMANDS you to, whereas the quotes most often used to justify homophobic bigotry have nothing to do with homosexuality at all.
Goddamn hypocrites, every one of you bible-thumpers.
Jamie M
Sep 07, 2009 at 06:59
Sep 07, 2009 at 06:59
I'm not an American, this political race wouldn't involve me and my current
life what so ever, unless I come to Oklahoma.
But at the same time, the fact that Brittany Novotny isn't just fighting to deserve the right; but knowing she HAS the right; makes me proud to know of a human being, no matter where they're from, could stand up against all odds and say I have the right.
And for those that believe this opinion shouldn't count since I'm just a New Zealand; end of the day, I'm a gay man; and I can still reproduce, I can still love and I can still live.
But I will NOT hate as much as those
who would bring Brittany down because she's transgender.
In fact, I dare those stupid and narrow minded enough to focus on her physical differences and ONLY focus on her political views.
But at the same time, the fact that Brittany Novotny isn't just fighting to deserve the right; but knowing she HAS the right; makes me proud to know of a human being, no matter where they're from, could stand up against all odds and say I have the right.
And for those that believe this opinion shouldn't count since I'm just a New Zealand; end of the day, I'm a gay man; and I can still reproduce, I can still love and I can still live.
But I will NOT hate as much as those
who would bring Brittany down because she's transgender.
In fact, I dare those stupid and narrow minded enough to focus on her physical differences and ONLY focus on her political views.
Donna
Sep 07, 2009 at 12:27
Sep 07, 2009 at 12:27
Based on Jan Baker's 'logic,' only heterosexual couples *with the intent of
reproducing* should be permitted to marry. This, of course, rules out
infertile couples, those who choose not to have children, those past
child-bearing age. Do people who tout this argument ever fully consider
the logical implications? It would seem not.
Apparently Ms. Baker has somehow concluded that same-sex relationships threaten the perpetuation of the species and economic growth (no more children, no more consumers, right?). Who knew the answer to economic recovery was so simple--just make more babies!
Ms. Baker would at least have been more honest had she said that it was a matter of misguided 'morality' that she agrees with Ms. Kern, rather than trotting out such inanity as 'marriage is for reproduction only' and 'homosexuality threatens the survival of humanity,' (never mind the laughable economic argument).
One has to wonder if such faulty reasoning skills are reflective of our educational system in general, or if logic is simply ritualistically washed away like yet another sin on Sunday mornings.
Apparently Ms. Baker has somehow concluded that same-sex relationships threaten the perpetuation of the species and economic growth (no more children, no more consumers, right?). Who knew the answer to economic recovery was so simple--just make more babies!
Ms. Baker would at least have been more honest had she said that it was a matter of misguided 'morality' that she agrees with Ms. Kern, rather than trotting out such inanity as 'marriage is for reproduction only' and 'homosexuality threatens the survival of humanity,' (never mind the laughable economic argument).
One has to wonder if such faulty reasoning skills are reflective of our educational system in general, or if logic is simply ritualistically washed away like yet another sin on Sunday mornings.
Jennifer
Sep 08, 2009 at 10:40
Sep 08, 2009 at 10:40
I really don't understand why people care whether a person is homosexual or
not. My gender and sexuality are MY business, and I don't bother to poke
my nose in others' business. For the record, I am a heterosexual female
whose husband was raised by two gay women. His parents set a MUCH better
example for him than mine did for me, being divorced and remarried several
times each. His parents are still together and created a loving
environment for him to grow up in. I will support Novotny because she is
intelligent and competent while Kern is intolerant and ignorant--it has
nothing at all to do with gender or sexuality for me.
Jennifer
Sep 08, 2009 at 10:41
Sep 08, 2009 at 10:41
I really don't understand why people care whether a person is homosexual or
not. My gender and sexuality are MY business, and I don't bother to poke
my nose in others' business. For the record, I am a heterosexual female
whose husband was raised by two gay women. His parents set a MUCH better
example for him than mine did for me, being divorced and remarried several
times each. His parents are still together and created a loving
environment for him to grow up in. I will support Novotny because she is
intelligent and competent while Kern is intolerant and ignorant--it has
nothing at all to do with gender or sexuality for me.
Kiera T
Sep 08, 2009 at 11:39
Sep 08, 2009 at 11:39
"There never has been the 'freedom' in these matters, in any society, now
being demanded as a right; even societies which tolerated homosexual
behavior still protected the sustained unions of parents both legally and
culturally, simply because those unions and only these unions are any
society's future paycheck." - Jan Baker
Seriously? Have you ever heard it is better remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt? If you do your history homework you'll find that it is only a fairly recent practice of societies/cultures to view homosexuality in a negative light. It's only in the last 1500 years that paulianity, that's right PAULianity, has influenced the masses in this direction. Christianity makes no mention of it at all. Hmmmm must not have been such a big deal to Jesus after all, considering that he NEVER brought it up...
To take it another direction almost all of the dominant early cultures had a huge homosexual presence. Roman, Greek, Persian, Egyptian all held some sort of practice of Dominant<->Submissive relationships as the cultural norm rather than male<->female. Often times these relationships consisted of an older male and a younger male *gasp*. Also, a great many cultures held a holy and reverent place for trans people. They believed that these people were deeply spiritual and transcended the common person's ability to achieve inner peace or enlightenment. Trans people were commonly shaman, priests/priestesses, or holy men/women.
Just please, if you are going to taught history as your basis of ideology, try to know at list a little about what you speak, please? I'm not saying that every society has had a prevalent vein of same sex relationships with in it, however you ARE saying that it hasn't. To put it bluntly you are completely wrong. People like you who spout ignorance, details out of context, and myth as though it were fact are far more harmful to society than I am.
Have a nice day! :)
Seriously? Have you ever heard it is better remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt? If you do your history homework you'll find that it is only a fairly recent practice of societies/cultures to view homosexuality in a negative light. It's only in the last 1500 years that paulianity, that's right PAULianity, has influenced the masses in this direction. Christianity makes no mention of it at all. Hmmmm must not have been such a big deal to Jesus after all, considering that he NEVER brought it up...
To take it another direction almost all of the dominant early cultures had a huge homosexual presence. Roman, Greek, Persian, Egyptian all held some sort of practice of Dominant<->Submissive relationships as the cultural norm rather than male<->female. Often times these relationships consisted of an older male and a younger male *gasp*. Also, a great many cultures held a holy and reverent place for trans people. They believed that these people were deeply spiritual and transcended the common person's ability to achieve inner peace or enlightenment. Trans people were commonly shaman, priests/priestesses, or holy men/women.
Just please, if you are going to taught history as your basis of ideology, try to know at list a little about what you speak, please? I'm not saying that every society has had a prevalent vein of same sex relationships with in it, however you ARE saying that it hasn't. To put it bluntly you are completely wrong. People like you who spout ignorance, details out of context, and myth as though it were fact are far more harmful to society than I am.
Have a nice day! :)
CJ
Sep 08, 2009 at 15:48
Sep 08, 2009 at 15:48
There's yet another flaw to Jan's argument, besides the fact that it also
rules out straight childless/infertile couples:
Extending marriage rights to gay people does not take away straight people's ability to marry and have kids. Straight people will keep on doing what they've always done (such as getting divorced half the time), regardless of what gay people are allowed to do.
Extending marriage rights to gay people does not take away straight people's ability to marry and have kids. Straight people will keep on doing what they've always done (such as getting divorced half the time), regardless of what gay people are allowed to do.
ashley w
Sep 08, 2009 at 18:00
Sep 08, 2009 at 18:00
Jan wrote, "Gay Rights sneaked in with the very valid civil rights
movement, and it is time for it to go."
umm... i wasn't around back then, but from my reading the only rights gays seem to have gotten in the civil rights era was the right to congregate at bars without the police arresting them.
umm... i wasn't around back then, but from my reading the only rights gays seem to have gotten in the civil rights era was the right to congregate at bars without the police arresting them.
Susanna
Sep 08, 2009 at 21:21
Sep 08, 2009 at 21:21
Hey kids
I am gender-queer.
I was born female but came close to transitioning.
We've also left out the intersexed/inter-gendered folks as well.(People born with male and female genitals)
There really are so many different kinds of people and pairings out there it is truly amazing. But all that really matters is LOVE!
I am gender-queer.
I was born female but came close to transitioning.
We've also left out the intersexed/inter-gendered folks as well.(People born with male and female genitals)
There really are so many different kinds of people and pairings out there it is truly amazing. But all that really matters is LOVE!
Molly
Sep 09, 2009 at 22:23
Sep 09, 2009 at 22:23
I'm trans, I'm proud.
Heck, I don't understand the anti transgender thing, Do people honestly believe that homosexuality and transgender-ism are great threats? People really need to stop being so selfish. :/
Heck, I don't understand the anti transgender thing, Do people honestly believe that homosexuality and transgender-ism are great threats? People really need to stop being so selfish. :/
Joe
Sep 12, 2009 at 17:12
Sep 12, 2009 at 17:12
As usual the social conservative completely misses the point. The greatest
threat to America IS illegitimacy -- a threat which is hurting minorities
disproportionately and guaranteeing continued crime and incarceration.
The cause is feminism, primarily WHITE feminism.
Homosexuality, pornography, etc. are all distractions from this fundamental issue. Until we restore DIGNITY and RIGHTS to men and fathers and stop enabling anti-social behavior on the part of women, including false rape and domestic violence accusations, Ms. Sally can expect further social disintegration.
Once again, homosexuals are a complete side issue, having practically nothing to do with the pathetic state that normal marriage is in.
The cause is feminism, primarily WHITE feminism.
Homosexuality, pornography, etc. are all distractions from this fundamental issue. Until we restore DIGNITY and RIGHTS to men and fathers and stop enabling anti-social behavior on the part of women, including false rape and domestic violence accusations, Ms. Sally can expect further social disintegration.
Once again, homosexuals are a complete side issue, having practically nothing to do with the pathetic state that normal marriage is in.
Sherri Roper
Sep 20, 2009 at 13:54
Sep 20, 2009 at 13:54
I really appreciate many of these comments, especially the education
provided by Hazumu Osaragi, Jan, Nicole Hatch, Micki, Keira T., CJ, and
others. I am sorry to say, I now no longer have the energy to name all of
the others with whom I agree. The whole discussion wears me out. I am
happy, even, that those with whom I disagree may say what they "feel". I
certainly wouldn't call it a debate, since debate is contingent upon logic.
Tiny boxes is right. Why anybody would choose the make one's God so very,
very, very small is one of the lesser mysteries to me. Kindness is free,
and yes I do truly believe that love of one's fellow man trumps all.
Zhara's Girl
Sep 21, 2009 at 17:58
Sep 21, 2009 at 17:58
The way the term "straight" is used, I can't see it as the same as
"heterosexual". A hetero attracted to a transperson with their original
genitals - how "straight" are they usually considered? I've known of women
who don't want their transwoman partners to get GRS. How homosexual are
they? but how "straight" are they?
Straight just means a particularly boring breeder, or "normal" as far as the poor sheltered saps of the world see it.
Straight just means a particularly boring breeder, or "normal" as far as the poor sheltered saps of the world see it.











