Episcopal Church’s only openly gay bishop is coming to Dallas for Black Tie Dinner, but he won’t be conducting any liturgical services

Bishop V. Gene Robinson says he believes that far from condemning gay people, the Bible can be a source of liberation for LGBT people, just as it was for African-Americans.

V. Gene Robinson, who became the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal Church in 2003, will be at Dallas’ Black Tie Dinner in November to accept the 2008 Elizabeth Birch Award. Robinson sat down with Dallas Voice recently to talk in a telephone interview about his upcoming visit and other issues.

Dallas Voice: Are you looking forward to coming to Dallas?
Bishop V Gene Robinson: I’m very much looking forward to it. A lot of the work that I do is on behalf of LGBT people everywhere. And it’s just especially wonderful to be honored by your peers, and for that work to be recognized, so it’s a great honor for me. I also think that coming to Dallas is an important thing because it’s a part of the country and a diocese of the Episcopal Church where there’s not a lot of affirmation of gay and lesbian people out there, and I look forward to the opportunity to present a different sort of religious voice.

DV: There are rumors that you plan to conduct some sort of church service while you’re here. But wouldn’t you need permission from James Stanton, bishop of the Dallas diocese, in order to do that?
V.G.R: Yes, I would need the permission of the bishop, which I know will not be forthcoming. So in fact I will not be leading any kind of service while I’m there. I have written to the bishop and let him know that I will physically be in his diocese, but that I will not be acting liturgically in any way. I do plan to speak at St. Thomas Episcopal Church, but not in the context of the service.

DV: Did you even bother asking?
V.G.R.: I didn’t bother, because Bishop Stanton is very clear where he stands on this issue, and I’m certain that I would not be welcome to act liturgically in his diocese. And I have absolutely no intention of doing anything like that without the permission of the local bishop.

DV: So, in some ways this will be like going to Lambeth this summer?
V.G.R.: [Laughs] Well, no. Unlike Lambeth, actually, I expect the welcome to be exuberant and joyful, certainly at the Black Tie Dinner and also at St. Thomas Church, which is a real beacon of hope for LGBT people in that community.

DV: So you’re not going to wear a bulletproof vest as you reportedly have from time to time?
V.G.R.: Well, I’m told by my security people never to divulge what I am or am not doing regarding security. It would be like Russia

showing us their intelligence reports. It just doesn’t work.

DV: You mentioned St. Thomas. Does it surprise you that even in a conservative diocese like this, that we have an openly gay rector, Father Steven Waller?
V.G.R.: No, it actually doesn’t surprise me. After all, what we say — which is, “We’re everywhere” — is true, and of course I don’t need to tell you, but Dallas has a vibrant and wonderful gay community. And, you know, the fact of the matter is the gospel talks about God’s love for all of God’s children, and there are going to be people who take that very seriously.
I’m reminded that slaves were given copies of the Bible for the purpose of keeping them quiet and docile and subservient. The problem was, they read them. They read their Bibles, and that became the source of their liberation, and I think the same is true for gay and lesbian people.
We’ve been told that the Bible is our enemy for a very long time, and that was supposed to keep us quiet and in the closet. But in fact if you read the Bible, I think there’s no other conclusion to draw from it other than that God loves us like God loves all of God’s children.

DV: So you believe it will be religious folks who ultimately clinch the victory for gay rights?
V.G.R.: Certainly it’s going to take religious people to change their churches. But I don’t think there’s ever been a civil rights issue —and I’ll probably speak about this at the dinner — I don’t think there’s ever been a civil rights issue so tied to religious opinion. Yes, the Bible was used to justify slavery. Yes, the Bible has always been used to subjugate and denigrate women, but in neither of those cases has there been such an appeal to scripture, and I would even say that 95 percent of the discrimination that we [LGBT people] experience on a personal level or on a societal level, comes from a particular reading of scripture. So I think it’s going to take religious people to undo that misinterpretation of scripture. And also, just strategically, a lot of people who aren’t familiar with the Bible or not involved in the church just seem to crumble when someone quotes scripture. But that doesn’t make me tremble at all, so I think it’s going to take strong religious voices who are not at all afraid to fight with fundamentalists about what scripture says and what scripture means.

DV: Dallas has what is known as the largest gay church in the world. In the context of what you’re talking about, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
V.G.R.: I certainly would never hold it against someone for leaving a church that is inhospitable and unpastoral in order to find a church home that supports them in their faith journey. So I applaud MCC churches and other churches like the Cathedral of Hope. I applaud them for providing that kind of sanctuary. On the other hand, it makes me very, very sad that all of our churches, which ought to be safe places for all of God’s children, are not living up to what they’re called to be. And so I feel like my mission is to at least try to make the Episcopal Church that kind of safe place for LGBT people all over the church.

DV: What is your advice to people like Father Waller and his many LGBT congregants?
V.G.R.: Well, my own experience guides what I would say to someone, which is that when you live your life openly and honestly and in doing so exemplify the joy of knowing that you’re loved by God, sooner or later, people will believe it. And I think we have to live lives of such integrity and joy that there will be no denying that the light of Christ is in us. And I think in the end that’s the greatest witness we can make. That is exactly why I went to Lambeth — not to launch a protest, not to disrupt anything — but to let the light of Christ shine from me, and to a group of people most of whom have never had the opportunity to sit in the same room with another gay or lesbian Christian.

DV: So why not lead a church service while you’re here?
V.G.R.: Probably several reasons. One would be that that’s not my particular style. It’s a little like during the AIDS crisis, both the Gay Men’s Health Crisis and ACT UP each had its own role. They each had their own strategy, and we needed both. And I would characterize myself more in the GMHC model than in the ACT UP model. The second reason is that one of the things that those of us on the liberal side of things in the Episcopal Church have been complaining about is people from outside the United States coming into the Episcopal Church and taking congregations away, taking them under their wing. It looks like the entire Diocese of Fort Worth is about to do that, and it would be disingenuous of me to complain about that, and then to swoop into someone else’s diocese and do things against the will of the local bishop. I don’t think that would be at all constructive or helpful. And the fact of the matter is, I love the church and I’m willing to live by its canons and its own internal regulations, none of which, by the way, preclude the ordination of gay and lesbian people, and none of which, by my reading, preclude the blessing of a same-sex union.

DV: Speaking of the Fort Worth diocese, it’s often reported that they want to leave the church over two issues: women and gays. But you actually believe the two are one and the same?
V.G.R.: I think the two are incredibly closely linked, and I don’t think you can understand the vehemence of the opposition to LGBT people unless you make the connection between the underlying misogyny that I think is the real basis for most of the homophobia in the world. I very much see the connections there. It’s interesting that three of the four dioceses that are the most likely to try to leave the Episcopal Church as a whole diocese, three of the four of them have been the three dioceses in the whole country that still refuse to ordain women. That’s Fort Worth, San Joaquin [Calif.] and Quincy [Ill.]. … I think the reason that the resistance is so great is that really what this is about is the beginning of the end of patriarchy, and I think that’s a terribly frightening thing for a lot of the world. Straight, white, Western, educated, wealthy men have been making most of the decisions for most of the world for a very long time, and I think with the welcoming of people of color to the table and of women and now LGBT people, we’re really seeing the beginning of the end of that, and those who’ve benefited from it mean to resist it.

DV: It seems we’ve been hearing that it’s more and more likely a schism in the Anglican Communion is inevitable. Do you believe that?
V.G.R.: I refuse to use the word inevitable about it in the sense that we don’t have to come apart until someone chooses to leave or throws someone else out, and until that happens, I won’t believe that it’s inevitable. But on the other hand, if someone chooses to leave, if someone chooses to form a new group or whatever, there’s no way to make them stay. You don’t hear anyone on the liberal side of things, or the American side of things, wanting anyone to leave or wanting for any kind of split to happen. It’s all coming from the conservative side, and if in the end they decide they can’t live with the rest of us, then yes, I guess there will be a split of some sort. But I don’t believe it’s inevitable.

DV: It sounds like you may be getting some company, with the possible nomination of Jeffrey John, who’s openly gay, for bishop in Wales. Are you afraid he will steal some of your limelight?
V.G.R.: Believe me, I’ve had enough limelight to share with any number of people, and I can hardly wait for the next openly gay bishop to be consecrated. It gets pretty lonely out here on this limb all by myself, and I would welcome that. There are lots of rumors flying, and I know Jeffrey. I think the British press especially are fond of speculating, and until it happens I wouldn’t put a lot of bets on it. I do know that the Archbishop of Wales has said that if an otherwise qualified gay or lesbian person were put forward for bishop and elected by the diocese, he would be willing to consecrate that, and I think that’s a great step forward.

DV: How disappointed were you to see another apparent attempt to inject religion into politics in the form of Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin?
V.G.R.: It’s very disappointing, and the other thing that I found really alarming in the [nomination acceptance] speech that Gov. Palin gave, is that it seems to me that this was the re-launch, or the re-ignition of the culture wars, and we know where that goes. With the bashing of liberals and the Eastern establishment and all of that, gay-bashing isn’t far behind. I suppose you can’t blame the Republicans because it’s worked for them before. But I think that kind of division and polarization in America — we see where that’s gotten us, which is nowhere — and with that kind of polarization, we can’t settle the problems we face as a nation, either domestically or internationally. When you divide the electorate that way, and you make one half of the electorate the bad guys and call them evil and un-Christian, it’s hard to govern after that. Because why would those people want to make common cause with you after you’re elected?

DV: The chief beneficiary of Black Tie is the Human Rights Campaign, which has been criticized for supporting a version of the Employment Nondiscrimination Act that didn’t include gender identity. And I understand there is a protest of the dinner planned this year by a transgender group. Can you sympathize with them, and did that play a role in your decision about whether to accept the invitation?
V.G.R.: Well, first of all, I only learned of this protest very recently. I am intending to write back to the transgender group and say that I do intend to receive the award and speak at the Black Tie Dinner, but that I would also be willing to appear, meet with, participate in an event, whatever, with the transgender community to show my support and to speak on their behalf as a fellow member of the community, the larger LGBT community. It goes back to what I said about half a loaf and a whole loaf. The Human Rights Campaign has an enormous influence in Washington, and they’ve got considerable political savvy, and the fact of the matter is that a full LGBT bill simply would not have passed. And I don’t think we always have to hold out for the full loaf before moving forward. You get what you can accomplish and then continue to work for the rest of it. If I believed that HRC was not supportive of transgender people, if I believed that they were not going to continue to work diligently to get transgender people covered under that bill, then that would be a whole different story, but I’m not of that opinion.


E-mail wright@dallasvoice.com


This article appeared in the Dallas Voice print edition September 19, 2008.