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‘Why Gay is Not O.K.’ sign prompts protest at First Baptist Dallas
November 6th, 2008
Sam Fulcher sends word this afternoon that he’s organizing an LGBT protest outside First Baptist Dallas this Sunday. The protest is being planned in response to the above sign, which indicates that three sermons are scheduled for Sunday on “Why Gay is Not O.K.” Fulcher said he first noticed the sign when he was driving home from an Election Night party, of all things.
“I found it ironic and sad that on a night of such history and hope I was greeted with a sign stating ‘Gay is Not O.K.’ As one barrier is being shattered homophobia is alive and well and still accepted enough to be on the side of a building. The recent passing of bans on gay marriage in many of our states make this point even more obvious.”
In case you’re wondering, below is Matthew 19:3-6, which doesn’t appear to say anything about why “Gay is Not O.K.” Fulcher said the protesters will gather beginning at 10 a.m. at 1707 San Jacinto. For more information about the protest, e-mail Fulcher at samblade8@yahoo.com.
3. The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4. And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5. And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6. Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
UPDATE: Another protest is planned this Saturday, Nov. 15, at Dallas City Hall. Go here for details.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Does this surprise anyone? The Southern Baptist Convention is one of the most anti-gay denominations out there. It took them until 1995 to formally denounce their racist past so maybe by 2050 they will apologize to homosexuals.
November 7th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Even conservative Bible scholars would argue that this passage has nothing whatsoever to do with homosexuality but with the Pharisees trying to embarrass Jesus. They challenge him to say something they could use against him, asking him to take sides in the dispute between the Jewish schools of Hillel and Shammai on the reasons for divorce. The Shammai school held a stricter position than the Hillel school, which accounts for the “every cause” caveat.
Matthew has Jesus recall at once two Genesis texts that show the will and purpose of the Creator in making human beings male and female (Genesis 1:27), namely, that a man may be joined to his wife in marriage in the intimacy of one flesh (Genesis 2:24). I suppose a preacher could extrapolate from that that “Gay is not O.K.,” but such an interpretation distracts from the passage’s purpose.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:07 am
[...] just wanted to point you to the Rev. Jon Garinn’s comment below, in which he breaks down Matthew 19:3-6 for us. Thanks, [...]
November 7th, 2008 at 11:31 am
I’m going to mail a copy of “For the Bible Tells Me So” to this church. Although I’m sure they have seen it yet refuse to open their little closed minds.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Do they miss the irony that the evening sermon is called “A Transformed Heart”?!?
November 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
It is unfortunate that the good Rev John Garnin is so close minded, He appears to be someone that does not try to view something in the opposite way. close-minded is when you beleive in something or in someone and your mind will stay closed to that beleive and will not even try to acknoledge it.
It is also proven research that someone whom suffers from close minded attributes can also be clouded by paranoia
Paranoia is a disturbed thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards yourself.
Pity the man that is haunted by so many fears in his life !
November 7th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Any details on the march yet? We want to join. Should everybody wear the same colored shirt to show solidarity? Let me know details.
November 7th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
We are meeting across from the church entrance on San Jacinto at 10am. We are making some signs- Gay IS OK, etc! We hope to see you there!
November 7th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
This is amazing! I will be there to protest. I also invite you to view my speech on the so-called “change” on Election Day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8VP3sosv6Y
Justin P. Nichols
November 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
[...] to bring signs and their singing voices, for spirited choruses of “Jesus Loves Me.” Here’s what the Dallas Voice has posted about the controversy. Leave a [...]
November 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I have been saying for weeks, since I first saw their sad billboards about being a church to believe in, that I would much rather have a GOD I could believe in, not a church, and I do…My GOD is LOVE, not hate!
November 7th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
[...] Dallas Voice] Nov 7, 2008 · Link · Respond Tagged: Comments [...]
November 7th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
If you want a good read on the homophobia that exist in our city, take a gander at the
D Magazine Blog. Do you notice that not one D employee stands up for the gay community in such an obvious case of bias. D Magazine employees will stand up for the right for people to purchase machine guns because Obama was elected President, but keep don’t want to ruffle any straight feathers when it comes to gay issues.
Remember this, the next time you are standing in line at a grocery store and see a D Magazine staring back. Save your money.
November 7th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
[...] are understandably mad hence the protest planned for Sunday morn. Hint of Mint totally supports said protest but we think perhaps a quiet protest should happen on the inside of First Baptist Dallas. How many [...]
November 7th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Hint….ooooh…..I love being on the inside, with my husband. I am also enjoy singing, although I am not very good, but what I lack in talent,l I more than make up for in volume.
November 7th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I wanted to thank Mr Garin for his correct analysis of the passage in Matthew. It has nothing to do with homosexuality, but conservative Christians have used and will continue to use this verse, as well as, a multitude of others to condemn homosexuality along with any other ‘bad practice’ they deemed fit to condemn.
It’s unfortunate there were homosexuals that felt they were being attacked by his analysis, when in fact, he was pointing out the wrong use of this passage.
When I lay my head down at night, I only have 2 concerns: Did I love God, and did I love others? I will continue to love the people from the Southern Baptist Church I grew up in. I will continue to love those that persecute me, and I will continue to love God.
I hope and pray any demonstration that occurs this Sunday will be done without a spirit of hate.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Right Jett? We’d be just as loud with our tonal shortcomings. Although, I hope the entry is clear that we think protests both in and out will be a good thing.
R
November 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
This is why I left the ‘CHURCH’ many years ago. I was raised in southwest Kansas in a very strict ‘Christian Church’…and much to my dismay, I find many years later that I was fed a bunch of bullshit that is not true. Is it any wonder that so many gay guys, like me, are totally turned off by the organized churches? Give me a break…’GOD’ did not make me by mistake…he made me in his image. Deal with it. And that does not mean that I agree with the MCC philosophy either…I am who I am, and GOD made me…so I am here for a purpose.
November 7th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
1. I am helping organize the rally and we plan to stay across the street. I spoke with the City of Dallas and they said a peaceful protest was fine. We are going to hold signs and sing Jesus Loves Me. The signs are just going to stay things like Gay is OK. If people want to go in that is fine, but we officially take the stance to stay across the street.
2. Jack- no, no, no! One of my best friends is the assistant editor at D. I sent her the picture and the story and ask her to publish it. She told me that editors are not suppose to read the comments or post stuff. My friend Stacey is not homophobic and she told me that D Magazine does not endorse homophobia. Their job is to report the news not judge the news. I hope you reconsider your stance and I hope to see you Sunday!
November 7th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Jack E. Jett — I’m confused. It was a D Magazine blogger who posted the item, thus opening it up for discussion. And, hasn’t Nancy posted before on “Gay List Daily” or something like that? I’ve never sensed an ounce of anti-homosexual sentiments on the website.
Now, do I disagree with the use of the word “gay” on their site at times? Yes. But, (while I don’t agree) there are those that think that using the word gay is fine, and truly mean no harm in it.
I’m not an avid reader of this blog, but I’ve seen you trash them many times before, and I think unfairly. I’m not affilliated with the mag, fwiw.
November 7th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
north texas is full of bigits and racists, I should know having been raised during the mcarthy era, my family composed davey crockett, sleeping beauty, herbie, pirates of the carribean to name a few. My grandfather co authored the booker t washington commemerating the first black person on a coin.
Now if you ask them if they are prejudice they say no, if you listen to them you understand
November 7th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Lisa and me, I respect your viewpoint. I have a different one. They are happy to make gay jokes and puns. Take any of the jokes they make about gays and replace the word gay with the world black and tell me they would get away with it.
D Editorial make comments all the time about their gay shirts. or looking gay, or acting gay. Look at how many comments they made today about the rights to purchase machine guns. They do make comments. While you friend may tell you they do not “endorse homophobia” I have yet to see a pro gay article. Josh Pearson, made comments and they were NOT supportive.
You might find this article interesting, where the President of the right wing Eagle Forum, very popular in Dallas, accidently sent me a behind the scenes homophobe planning session.
http://www.dallasvoice.com/artman/publish/article_9876.php
So, no I don’t agree that D editors do not make comments. I have seen Nancy post before, and I know she has gay friends, why didn’t she take a stand.
I am sorry that it bothers you that I trash them. It bothers me that they trash us and do it under the guise of dorm room humor. If you will give me an example of me being unfair, I might be able to provide you with a better explaination,
Here are some comments made in the last few days.
• Indeed it is 4:20. And that’s the only thing that will make all this gay-ness bearable. (See how I did that?)
• Tim might be energetic and “rough†in the Brokeback saddle, so to speak, but Eric is mucho macho, gay shirt notwithstanding. Plus, he’s the type to twist off and get freaky (kicking, biting, eye-gouging). Definitely, Eric.
• Point of order: Is it a gay man shirt if a woman is wearing it?
• what law? who is being discriminated against? people always rush to defend when there is nothing to defend. I’m sure there are religious leaders in America who denounce our country, yet they are allowed to do so freely. how is this any different?
I think “blouse†would cover both situations, no?
• Update: That shirt is still gay.
What a gay shirt. Does this guy even have a pair?
I can’t tell you how much it pleases me that I intended to poke fun at Eric for poking at his teeth in a restaurant (frankly, an activity I’d engaged in just minutes earlier, thanks to those poppy seed buns), and yet most of you latched onto the shirt as a better object of ridicule. Thank you, dear friends
CJ – In your opinion they do. That’s what I’m saying. This topic is such a hot button that people immediately get all ticked off at the first opportunity. Just because the church does not condone gay marriage or gay rights or the gay lifestyle does not mean they also preach hate or discrimination. Some do, I agree. But many do not.
November 7th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
And, D cares so much that they just took down everything offensive and turned off the comments..so I got the last word!
Hope to see all of you Sunday!
November 7th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
But you notice — they don’t pay attention to the rest of the chapter, especially verse 11, which says — “…All men cannot receive this saying except they to whom it is given.” Someone needs to remind these cretins that they’re doing the exact same thing the devil did when tempting Christ in the desert — quoting only the part of the Bible that supports their cause and ignoring that which doesn’t (see Matthew 4:5-6 and compare it to Psalm 91, which is what the sneak is quoting). Makes them the ones aligned with evil.
November 8th, 2008 at 1:35 am
The Bible has been re-written so many times by mankind over the years to strike fear into people that No one , but No one knows what the original Bible states anymore.
Every new radical pastor, evangelist, preist, etc,etc,etc… that comes along quotes things from the Bible to bestow the Fear Factor into peoples minds much like Karl Rove did in the George W. Bush Political Campaignes,(Governor of Texas and President of the United States). These people have made up so many ways to deliver the scriptures that even they don’t know what is real and what is fiction anymore.
Don’t get me wrong, I still believe in GOD, but my GOD is a loving GOD of ALL People, not just the narrow minded bigotted few that believe all this crap thrown at us everyday by all these crazed individuals that are affraid of everything they don’t understand and are to affraid to try to understand.
Since all these people don’t believe Homosexuals to be moral and upstanding citizens, We all should throw a wrench in there agendas by demanding we don’t have to pay school taxes for their children to be able to go to schools with monies paid by us undesirable Homosexuals. So far I haven’t heard of a single case where they don’t want to accept our Tax Money to pay for their childrens educations. Aren’t they affraid that their children will be morally corrupted due to accepting money from taxes paid by Homosexuals. No, and you NEVER WILL either, as there is two sides to all their hatered toward us. Take the money from the Homo’s but cast them into a dark light for them to be heard no more, WAKE UP AMERICA, Smell the Coffee. WE ARE HERE, like it or not!!!!
November 8th, 2008 at 8:49 am
We all know the bartist church is not a true religion. they have no message of hope that attracts members, so they preach a message of hate, and we all know how christians are good at hating. Anyway there is no god.
November 8th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Jack
Please don’t lumpall of the D editorial staff into a gang of homophobes. I didn’t take a stand because I was working and didn’t read 99 comments to a post I didn’t put up. I work with these people everyday and guess what–some of them are GAY. I had gay friends before they were even called “gay” they were in-the–closet “faggots”. And that was the nicest term you could say publically. I would be the first to call out my fellow workers for being homophobic. Mean little boys, maybe at times, but certainly not anti-gay. Every dollar you spend when you buy a D Magazine supports gay people directly and indirectly. Stop it.
November 8th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Jack
Please don’t lump all of the D editorial staff into a gang of homophobes. I didn’t take a stand because I was working and didn’t read 99 comments to a post I didn’t put up. I work with these people everyday and guess what–some of them are GAY. I had gay friends before they were even called “gay” they were in-the–closet “faggots”. And that was the nicest term you could say publically. I would be the first to call out my fellow workers for being homophobic. Mean little boys, maybe at times, but certainly not anti-gay. Every dollar you spend when you buy a D Magazine supports gay people directly and indirectly. Stop it.
November 8th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Faith-based bigotry. Legal? Yes. Ethical? Depends on one’s frame of reference. Discriminatory? Yes, unless all bigots and non-bigots alike share the same rights under the law which we know is not so.
Baptists are so gross. Why would anyone drink that kool-aid?
November 8th, 2008 at 11:19 am
I’m holding a gathering at park cities baptist church to help foster respectful and meaningful dialogue between the GLBT community and the evangelical Christian community (recognizing that there is certainly some overlap). It is at 7pm on Tuesday night Nov. 11 in the great hall at PCBC. Featured guest is Andrew Marin from Chicago who started an non-profit to build a bridge between the two groups.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Choosing to be Southern Baptist is NOT okay; it’s a death style that leads to racism, bigotry, and hate. Yet they enjoy all the special rights granted to Radical Religious Extremists. I shall continue to fight against the enemies of Jesus that teach the opposite of what Jesus taught.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I have know Stacey Yervasi for 8 years and she would not work at a company that was anti-gay. Period. The end.
November 8th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I have known Stacey Yervasi for 8 years and she would not work at a company that was anti-gay. Period. The end.
November 8th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Nancy, I have the utmost respect for you and Stacy. Yesterday there were many post on the blog from the editorial staff of D Magazine giving their views on gun purchase among other issues. Not one let their view be known about something gay people see as an insult. Why?
If I am not mistaken Wick Allison was a huge supporter of the theory of Bible Giril that one could pray the gay away. The comments about Tim’s gay shirt….Eric looking gay…..is almost a day to day occurance. Take some of the gay comments and replace the word gay with black, hispanic, or Jewish.
Show me a pro gay article from D Magazine. Show me any support at all on Frontburner for the gay community. This is not an issue about a hotel being built and who is going to pay for it, it is an issue of human rights and when a publication allows mulitple gay bashing post and never ever once takes a stand, then one has the right to question….why not.
D Magazine can be as supportive as the want to be, or not be supportive at all. We also have a choice to be supportive of publications…or not.
So while this issue may be easy to write off as another Jack E. Jett rant, you would only be fooling yourself to believe I am the only gay person in Dallas that feels this way.
Perhaps you should take a look-see at this release about an email I recieved by accident that shows that groups are taught to hide their homophobia.
http://newswire.ascribe.org/cgi-bin/behold.pl?ascribeid=20081001.105006&time=11%2047%20PDT&year=2008&public=0
So to be clear. I do not believe that anyone at D Magazine is homophobic. I do believe that the magazine is not as supportive of the LGBTQ community as it should be. I agree that sometimes a frat boy mentality can be confused with verbal gay bashing. It is as issue they have with many minorities. One can deny it. Refuse to believe it, or accept it, but it is there in black and white.
Nancy, I am not sure what you mean when you say “Stop it”.
Are you asking me to stop posting on this blog? All blogs? What?
Why aren’t you posting your support of the gay community on the D Magazine blog? Why didn’t Tim? Zak? Eric?
November 8th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
BTW
If you really want to get a vibe on what I am talking about. Read the comments on the Dallas Observer blog vs the Frontburner.
Notice how Wilonsky handled the issue with style, humor and didn’t fear putting in an opinion.
November 8th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Here is a link for a brochure they should read. Take some to the church.
http://www.soulforce.org/pdf/whatthebiblesays.pdf
November 8th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
[...] one pictured above advertising Sunday’s sermon “Why Gay Is Not O.K.” Dallas Voice first mentioned it yesterday, noting that Sam Fulcher is planning a protest in conjunction with the speech; [...]
November 8th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Thanks Larry! I just printed a bunch of them!
November 9th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I will be there this morning with bells on… and my loud voice.
(Thank you for allowing me this indulgence)… Just as a side note everyone – there is a NATIONAL PROP 8 PROTEST set for next Saturday, Nov 15th… including Dallas. WE NEED EVERYONE THERE For more information please go to
http://www.jointheimpact.com and SPREAD THE WORD.
Our LGBT brothers and sisters in California needs every single one of us to help raise their voice. The Yes on 8 campaign has confirmed it is taking its fight to other states in an effort to ban our marriages in other states. First targets are NY and NJ.
If you want to keep updated on the CA movement, please add me as a MySpace friend (www.myspace.com/the1roomie) or go to http://www.InvalidateProp8.org – the official NEW campaign to overturn Prop 8.
What do we want? EQUALITY When do we want it? NOW!
November 9th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
It is a sad day when pastors cannot preach a sermon without having to deal with protests. The LGBT community cannot make people agree or condone their lifestyle. Churches have a right to hold to their beliefs. When we start persecuting churches for their beliefs, we are journeying closer to becoming like countries that have no freedom of expression and freedom of religion.
Im sorry that the passing of proposition 8 has offended some, but targeting people at church is really not the way to win people to your cause.
It really just fires us up and make us dig our heels in.
November 9th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
It fires us up and makes us want to come back next Sunday. I think we will.
Everyone is entitled to a point of view.
November 9th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Jessica, honey….your heels have been dug in against us for a long long time. You might know some of your representatives….GOD HATES FAGS…ALL FAGS DIE OF AIDS. Or perhaps you remember that the Catholic Church rails against a gay lifestyle on one hand, while paying out victims of child sexual abuse on another. Perhaps you may remember Rev Ted Haggerd who preached the virtures of “heterosexual sex” while getting his butt pounded by a male hooker then going home to screw his wife. That, honey is YOUR lifestyle and I do NOT condone it.
It is called blasphemy. The UNFORGIVABLE SIN.
We will target hate and we really don’t care if it comes behind a tax exempt pulpit or the mouth of a Michael Savage.
We are not trying to win people like you to our cause as we have already discovered that people like you are a lost cause. Your only hope for a life without hate is that if you pull your head out of the sand as you dig in your heels.
Now go spread your shit somewhere where someone gives a flying fuck.
November 9th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
It is a sad day when pastors stand behind their pulpit and condone hate against a brother or sister in Christ. It is an even sadder day when the church uses its pulpit to force others to live the way they preach is the right way to live by funding an initiative directed at taking rights that each of us are given as citizens.
We have not asked for your opinion let alone acceptance of our lifestyle, yet you are very free to give it. Being offended of anothers lifestyle is one thing. Forcing them to live as YOU believe is against our CIVIL RIGHTS.
There was a reason for the separation of church and state. The two should NEVER meet. Unfortunately they have and while you dig in, we have begun digging ourselves out of the trenches we have been submersed in.
It was a pleasure to sit in the pew with you today
See you in church.
November 9th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
[...] – http://www.theotalks.net/ Why I don’t think protesting churches is a good strategy [Re: Dallas Voice blog; First Baptist Church] Whosoever.org – Wonderful resource site for gay Christians The State of Black AIDS – Nov. 14. 2008 [...]
November 9th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Please look at and comment on:
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/N-Texans-to-Picket-Church-Over-Why-Gay-is-Not-OK-Sign.html
There are some crazy comments!
November 9th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
michael,
i’m interested in the dialog you are starting at park cities, would you mind emailing me with more info at nimbusthegreat@hotmail.com?
November 10th, 2008 at 10:50 am
While Jessica may have posted her comment because she is against us, I have to agree with her. Robert Jeffress and First Baptist Dallas have a right to be wrong. I don’t want the Baptists protesting at my church every time they disagree with a sermon, and, by its very existence as an inclusive, predominantly lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender church, that would be every week!
November 10th, 2008 at 11:34 am
[...] It all began last Thursday night, when I received an e-mail from Sam Fulcher with a photo attached of the marquee outside the church announcing Jeffress’ sermon. Above and after the jump are some great photos of the protest taken by Terry Thompson, controller for Dallas Voice (Terry’s favorite is the one above, which shows and African-American First Baptist congregant covering her nose to imply that the protesters stink, while her young daughter looks back toward a sign saying, “Civil unions could be the next Jim Crow”). I’m told we’ll have a DVtv segment up momentarily, so keep checking back on the main page, http://www.dallasvoice.com. In the meantime, here are some links to other media coverage of the protest. Many of these reports also have extensive comment threads. WFAA-TV, The Dallas Morning News, NBC 5, Fox 4, Dallas Observer, D Magazine. There’s also an interesting comments thread on my original post. [...]
November 10th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
What a bunch of hypocrites. The first verse that is on their billboard, Matthew 19:3, states “And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?â€. So I assume that not even one member of this wretched congregation has been divorced. Glass Houses????? Judge not lest you not be judged. These kinds of people are EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
Might I suggest that we set up a conference call between Pastor Jeffress and Ralph Lasher? Ralph is a pastor at Bethel United Church of Christ in Houston and is a WEALTH of knowledge on homosexuality in The Bible. He has conducted workshops and classes on this subject for years and, as a retired Episcopal priest, I am quite certain that he holds more biblical knowlege in the tip of his finger than Pastor Jeffress has in his entire body. Another minister in the Houston area, Rev. Ginny Brown Daniel of Plymouth United Church of Christ, has also held workshops on this subject and is incredibly informative and compassionate on the issue. AND, her church is WAY out on the NW side of town in Spring, TX, an EXTREMELY conservative suburb of Houston. Her congregation is a wonderful example of what Christianity is all about, with heterosexual congregants welcoming homosexual members in with open and outstretched arms – ones that do not hold knives to stab into the backs of others.
I will be watching this situation closely, as Dallas is not as far away from Houston as one would believe. Hatred and bigotry travel faster than the speed of light.
November 10th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Baptists like to think of themselves as good Christians, but they can be anything but. They tend to be judgemental and mean-spirited. And they are awfully selective in what and who they choose to single out for their hate. They “rely” on passages from the bible (often Leviticus) to say homosexuality is wrong, but they choose not to pay attention to other passages in Leviticus. For example: Leviticus 20:9 “For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.” Do Baptists suggest we should kill children who are disrespectful to their parents? Or, Leviticus 20:18 “If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people.” Do Baptist suggest we deport every man and woman who have slept together while the woman is having her period? Or, my favorite passages Baptists choose to ignore: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.” Leviticus 25:44-45 I’ve had it with Baptists and their singling out gay people. I applaud these protests and urge the Dallas community to not give up on protesting, writing letters, and e-mailing the First Baptist Church of Dallas (firstdallas.org) to point out how mean-spirited they are and how much hurt they encourage.
November 10th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
There will be another sermon at FBC of Dallas on the same subject on Sunday, November 16.
November 11th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Take the time to watch this:
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=069057619b039bf733e7
November 11th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
So
Is there going to be a protest this weekend at all?
I did a photojournalism project on this past sunday but couldnt get much out of the event due to poor lighting and getting there late!
November 15?
more protesters this upcoming Sunday at First Baptist for the Second part?
November 11th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Yes, we are protesting again!
Sunday, November 16th! 10am – 12:30pm
November 12th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Have any of you listened to the sermon? Dr. Jeffress spoke the absolute truth about homosexuality. You might not like it but it was the truth.
November 12th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Do you all not realize what you are doing. You are saying the Baptists are hateful and bigots but you are the ones called all the names and acting with animosity. The Baptist are merely following their authority, God’s Word. And then you want to restrict their religious freedom to do so.
November 12th, 2008 at 9:13 am
There are those who like to say that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. Various verses are cited (out of context) and the verses that people use to show that homosexuality is wrong are explained away. The world wants to change God’s words and meanings into something more suitable to its sinful desires. Nevertheless, the truth stands: The Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin. Let’s look at what it says.
Lev. 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”
Lev. 20:13, “If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them”
1 Cor. 6:9-10, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God.”
Rom. 1:26-28, “For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper.”
Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God. He created Adam and then made a woman. This is what God has ordained and it is what is right. Unlike other sins, homosexuality has a severe judgment administered by God Himself. This judgment is simple: They are given over to their passions. That means that their hearts are allowed to be hardened by their sins (Romans 1:18ff). As a result, they can no longer see the error of what they are doing. Without an awareness of their sinfulness, there will be no repentance and trusting in Jesus. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, there is no salvation.
November 12th, 2008 at 9:30 am
[...] UPDATE: The comments thread continues to grow on my original post about the protest at First Baptist, with people on both sides of the issue weighing in on a daily basis. Read the comments by going here. [...]
November 12th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Hi Bill. In fact, I have listened to Dr. Jeffress’s sermon. I even took notes on the sermon outline that was provided. You’re right; I didn’t like it, but not because he spoke the truth. Rather I did not appreciate the twisted logic he used to convince his followers of something. In the beginning of the sermon Dr. Jeffress asserts that only the things from the Old Testament that are repeated in the New Testament apply to us today. However, he later says that Jesus came to affirm the Old Testament. So, which is it? Was the Old Testament affirmed, or do I only look for those things that were repeated? Of particular interest was Jeffress’s claim that Paul’s words are as authoritative as the words of Jesus. Funny, I was taught that there was a reason that the things Jesus said are printed in red in my Bible.
Tim Larner and Bill, we clearly have different understandings of what the Bible is and is not. If you have not, I invite you to read Rev. Michael Piazza’s brochure “Homosexuality and Christianity.” It is a basis discussion of what have come to be known as the “Clobber Passages.” There are other, more detailed examinations, but this one is a good starter. It can found online at http://www.cathedralofhope.com/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=225&srcid=305
I do not anticipate that we will agree on this issue after you read it, but I simply invite you to read it with an open mind and heart to see if, perhaps, God might speak to you anew.
Blessings.
November 12th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Tim, I disagree with your interpretation of the Biblical passages. Read within the context of their own historical and cultural backgrounds, the Bible texts do not address adult, loving homosexual relations as we understand them today.
Leviticus 18:22 does forbid male-male sex as an “abomination.” But the word simply means an impurity or a religious taboo — like eating pork. As in the case of Catholics who used to be forbidden under pain of mortal sin to eat meat on Friday, the offense was not in the act itself but in the betrayal of one’s religion. The ancient Jews were to avoid practices common among the unclean Gentiles.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 lists “arsenokoitai” among those who will be excluded from the Reign of God. This obscure term has been translated “homosexuals” but its exact meaning is debated. It certainly does not include women but only some kind of male sexual offenders. If it does refer to men having sex with men — which is dubious — it must be interpreted in light of the abuse and licentiousness commonly associated with male-male sex in the Roman Empire.
Romans 1:27 mentions men having relations with men. But the terms used to describe them are “dishonorable” and “shameless.” These refer deliberately to social disapproval, not to ethical condemnation. Moreover, according to Paul’s usage, different from the prevalent Stoic philosophy of the day, “para physin” (”unnatural”) would best be translated “atypical” or “beyond the ordinary.” So it bears no reference to natural law. And it can imply no ethical condemnation because in Romans 11:24 God is said to act “para physin.” Paul sees gay sex as an impurity, just like uncircumcision or eating forbidden foods. He mentions it to make the main point of his letter, that purity requirements of the Jewish Law are not relevant in Christ Jesus.
November 12th, 2008 at 11:40 am
bill-yes, i did listen to the sermon. it was exactly as i expected. intolerant, devoid of understanding, and full of misinformation.
anyone that believes his response to the homosexual community is the right way to behave should be ashamed of themselves. this series is nothing more than a way to stir up controversy and get more publicity for his church. he’s well versed at doing that. it’s unfortunate that people in that church can’t see this for what it really is. a publicity stunt at the expense of the glbt community.
November 13th, 2008 at 11:55 am
David,
Thanks for the comments. How did Dr. Jeffress not speak the truth? What twisted logic did he use? Your question about Dr. Jeffress’ comments regarding the application of OT commands is besides the point. Homosexuality is condemned as a sin in both the OT and NT. Dr. Jeffress was correct to say that Paul’s words carry the same weight as Jesus’ words. You were taught incorrectly that Jesus words are more important because they are printed in red in some Bibles.
Thanks for the recommendation on the article. I will read it. The Scripture is very clear on homosexuality. I know you don’t want to change your lifestyle but the Scripture is very clear. We have to conform our lives to God’s Word but we so often attempt to conform God’s Word to our lives.
November 13th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Jon,
That is simply not true. You can disagree with my interpretation but it is plain to see in the verses provided. Your attempt at “word games†fails. The vast majority of top biblical scholars agree on this. The church doesn’t have these views because they misunderstood these passages. They have these views because that’s exactly what these passages state.
November 13th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Brian,
In case you didn’t notice your comments are intolerant, devoid of understanding and full of misinformation.
I assume you are speaking about the pastor – why is his speaking the truth about homosexuality wrong?
November 14th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Thank you for being the dim nightlight in the dark dark world Bill.
November 14th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
I would ask all of you to please read the article at the link below. It will greatly help you understand this issue.
http://www.battlefortruth.org/ArticlesDetail.asp?id=316
November 16th, 2008 at 8:14 am
bill, thank you for posting the link. I think, however, that you and I will have to agree to disagree. You understand the Bible to be one thing; I understand it in a different way. In any case, I will continue to lead my life in the best way I can, following the teachings of Jesus, doing my best to love and accept everyone, attending a church that models that by helping those in need and giving hope to the hurting, and embracing the truth of my God-given sexuality. If, in the end, I am wrong, I will know that I have done my best to spread love and hope and acceptance, which is the way I understand Jesus lived his life.
Blessings,
David
November 16th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
David,
You will not be following Jesus’ teachings if you continue to engage in homosexual acts. God did not make you a homosexual. That is the truth. I pray you will repent and turn to God for forgiveness and healing.
November 18th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Thank you Bill, Us non-homosexual Christians do love all you guys. Homosexuality IS a sin, when you come to the Lord you are supposed to ask Jesus into your life, confess your sins, and REPENT ( which means to Stop living in sin). We all make mistakes during our lives and continue to sin, but when you are saved you dont do them on purpose. It would be like an Adulturer to keep on sinning after he/she had been saved. If you keep sinning on purpose, with no remorse, you are spitting in Gods face. I have a hard time believing He is going to overlook that.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Thank you, bill. I will pray for you, too.
November 19th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Here is an article that is helpful.
http://www.godissues.org/articles/articles/1458/1/Proposition-8-and-the-Bible/Page1.html
November 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 am
Since when is having a different opinion condemned here in the United States? If I think homosexuality is wrong, why should I be judged and then subsequently labeled a homophobic hate-monger? Why can’t my opinion be TOLERATED too? Why don’t I get to make up my own mine? I respect and love homosexuals as God says we should, but why can’t I go to a church in peace and listen to a sermon that outlines something that i believe? SInce when is having a different opinion not tolerated in America?
February 16th, 2009 at 10:06 am
[...] if putting “Gay is Not OK” on the marquis outside their building in downtown Dallas wasn’t enough, First Baptist Church of Dallas has [...]