Comments on: Proof that the Mormon church broke IRS rules? http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/ The Official Weblog of the Dallas Voice Thu, 18 Mar 2010 12:50:42 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Tammye Nash http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6556 Tammye Nash Sat, 07 Feb 2009 04:06:55 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6556 Okay, I know Robert Maloney says he is gone and won't post any more, but just in case he happens to look in again, let me say this: I am not hurting inside. I get angry sometimes, but I am a happy, healthy person in a wonderful relationship with a beautiful woman. We have two wonderful, smart children and a great house and great jobs. You may think I have sounded "like a broken" record, but that is simply because the points I have made are valid and based on fact, while you have repeatedly argued that you are right because your religious beliefs say so. You, my friend, have the beam in your eye, and yes, I know what that means. I have actually studied the Bible, instead of just letting someone else tell me what is says and what it means. I have also read the Book of Mormon and parts of the Torah, and I have been to Bible study with people of the Jehovah's Witness faith. The Bible tells you to leave unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give God what belongs to God, and it tells you judge not lest ye be judged. And yet, you judge me by trying to force your religious beliefs onto me in the form of civil law, and you mix up what is Caesar's and what is God's, again by trying to put your religion into law. Think for yourself, man, instead of just letting someone else bottle-feed you what they say is the word of God. Okay, I know Robert Maloney says he is gone and won’t post any more, but just in case he happens to look in again, let me say this: I am not hurting inside. I get angry sometimes, but I am a happy, healthy person in a wonderful relationship with a beautiful woman. We have two wonderful, smart children and a great house and great jobs.
You may think I have sounded “like a broken” record, but that is simply because the points I have made are valid and based on fact, while you have repeatedly argued that you are right because your religious beliefs say so. You, my friend, have the beam in your eye, and yes, I know what that means. I have actually studied the Bible, instead of just letting someone else tell me what is says and what it means. I have also read the Book of Mormon and parts of the Torah, and I have been to Bible study with people of the Jehovah’s Witness faith.
The Bible tells you to leave unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and give God what belongs to God, and it tells you judge not lest ye be judged. And yet, you judge me by trying to force your religious beliefs onto me in the form of civil law, and you mix up what is Caesar’s and what is God’s, again by trying to put your religion into law.
Think for yourself, man, instead of just letting someone else bottle-feed you what they say is the word of God.

]]> By: Bill in Dallas http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6548 Bill in Dallas Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:49:40 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6548 Adieu Mr. Maloney Like every other individual I have attempted to have an intellectual conversation with, a genuine exchange of ideas and POV they choose to run away. So be it with you as well. And for the record, I have been reading the Bible and I am finding some fantastic things in it. I am realizing that today's Christians have no idea about what the Bible truly says. Instead, they choose to cite remote passages to back up their points. Instead they focus on hate and exclusion to protect their precious fragile souls. I recommend you read "Live Forgiven" by Jeff Warren. He is a Pastor here in the DFW area in McKinney. He talks about what it really means to live in Christ and how to live FOR Christ. He talks about the congregations who have strayed from the truth and message of the Bible. I must say, it is truly changing my own ideas about what Christianity is about. From someone who experienced many church sermons from many denominations as a child, I never saw the ideas he presents. Instead I saw hypocrisy, bigotry, and lying. Adieu Mr. Maloney

Like every other individual I have attempted to have an intellectual conversation with, a genuine exchange of ideas and POV they choose to run away. So be it with you as well. And for the record, I have been reading the Bible and I am finding some fantastic things in it. I am realizing that today’s Christians have no idea about what the Bible truly says. Instead, they choose to cite remote passages to back up their points. Instead they focus on hate and exclusion to protect their precious fragile souls. I recommend you read “Live Forgiven” by Jeff Warren. He is a Pastor here in the DFW area in McKinney. He talks about what it really means to live in Christ and how to live FOR Christ. He talks about the congregations who have strayed from the truth and message of the Bible. I must say, it is truly changing my own ideas about what Christianity is about. From someone who experienced many church sermons from many denominations as a child, I never saw the ideas he presents. Instead I saw hypocrisy, bigotry, and lying.

]]> By: Robert Maloney http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6544 Robert Maloney Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:34:10 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6544 Tammy, Bill, I feel sorry for both of you and I do understand that you must be hurting on the inside. It is difficult when people don't fully and completely appreciate you. I too had to deal with these very same issues as I was growing up. As all debates go they never resolve really anything, why, because of the "self interest' that most of us steep ourselves into. We often forget to remove the beam in our own eye before we can see clearly. I am sorry that both of you sound like a broken record on this issue. This will be my final post. I encourage you both to re-read my last post. God Bless both of you Adieu Tammy, Bill,

I feel sorry for both of you and I do understand that you must be hurting on the inside. It is difficult when people don’t fully and completely appreciate you. I too had to deal with these very same issues as I was growing up.

As all debates go they never resolve really anything, why, because of the “self interest’ that most of us steep ourselves into. We often forget to remove the beam in our own eye before we can see clearly.

I am sorry that both of you sound like a broken record on this issue. This will be my final post.

I encourage you both to re-read my last post.

God Bless both of you
Adieu

]]> By: Bill in Dallas http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6538 Bill in Dallas Sat, 07 Feb 2009 02:01:40 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6538 Since you wanted to look at history we shall: Look at desegragation in Brown vs Board of Education, Topeka, KS. Look at Loving vs. Virginia for the legalization of interracial marriages. Look at the 19th Amendment which gave women the right to vote. In all these cases, the majority was against granting EQUAL RIGHTS to a MINORITY. Just because something is popular does not mean it is RIGHT. It was the LAW that stepped in to prevail and restore the dignity to the Constitution. As you will also see, over time the Majority became the Minority. What is propelling the case against Gay Marriage is Fear!! And just so we can clear the air, besides the Religious rhetoric, I have been researching other angles as well. To make a case that homosexuals are a threat to society and to themselves is preposterous. No study exists where a control group can be established to weigh any sort of data against. In the end, every argument against Gay Marriage and Homosexuals boils down to religious tyranny. How many lives have been lost in the fight for religious power? Too many to count, that's how many. Even supposing religion has a role, which religion do you choose? Again, too many to count. The motto is if you don't approve of gay marriage then don't marry one. Simple as that. I would love to continue this conversation but take out the Mormon participation. That is what's muddying the water. We need to pull back the focus and address the issues at hand. I can honestly tell you that I am a productive american citizen who works hard, pays taxes, respects the law and participates in community improvement. I expect to be treated as such. Since you wanted to look at history we shall: Look at desegragation in Brown vs Board of Education, Topeka, KS. Look at Loving vs. Virginia for the legalization of interracial marriages. Look at the 19th Amendment which gave women the right to vote. In all these cases, the majority was against granting EQUAL RIGHTS to a MINORITY. Just because something is popular does not mean it is RIGHT. It was the LAW that stepped in to prevail and restore the dignity to the Constitution. As you will also see, over time the Majority became the Minority. What is propelling the case against Gay Marriage is Fear!! And just so we can clear the air, besides the Religious rhetoric, I have been researching other angles as well. To make a case that homosexuals are a threat to society and to themselves is preposterous. No study exists where a control group can be established to weigh any sort of data against. In the end, every argument against Gay Marriage and Homosexuals boils down to religious tyranny. How many lives have been lost in the fight for religious power? Too many to count, that’s how many. Even supposing religion has a role, which religion do you choose? Again, too many to count. The motto is if you don’t approve of gay marriage then don’t marry one. Simple as that. I would love to continue this conversation but take out the Mormon participation. That is what’s muddying the water. We need to pull back the focus and address the issues at hand. I can honestly tell you that I am a productive american citizen who works hard, pays taxes, respects the law and participates in community improvement. I expect to be treated as such.

]]> By: Tammye Nash http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6483 Tammye Nash Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:31:51 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6483 Once again Robert: This country is a republic, and in a republic the majority rules except in cases wherein majority rule would deny equal civil rights to a minority, and in those cases the courts are required to step in and protect the rights of the minority. It is true that there have been numerous times in our history when majority rule was allowed to negate the rights of certain minorities, but that doesn't make it right nor does it make it constitutional. Just like something being "traditional" doesn't mean it is good. You base your whole argument on your religious beliefs and your interpretation of the Bible. That is all well and good in the realm of religion. But we are talking about CIVIL rights in the realm of CIVIL government, and those are — or at least should be — separate from your religious beliefs or anyone else's, including mine. Because trust me, my interpretation of the Bible and my religious beliefs are VASTLY different from yours. Once again Robert: This country is a republic, and in a republic the majority rules except in cases wherein majority rule would deny equal civil rights to a minority, and in those cases the courts are required to step in and protect the rights of the minority.
It is true that there have been numerous times in our history when majority rule was allowed to negate the rights of certain minorities, but that doesn’t make it right nor does it make it constitutional.
Just like something being “traditional” doesn’t mean it is good.
You base your whole argument on your religious beliefs and your interpretation of the Bible. That is all well and good in the realm of religion. But we are talking about CIVIL rights in the realm of CIVIL government, and those are — or at least should be — separate from your religious beliefs or anyone else’s, including mine. Because trust me, my interpretation of the Bible and my religious beliefs are VASTLY different from yours.

]]> By: Robert Maloney http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6480 Robert Maloney Fri, 06 Feb 2009 20:11:17 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6480 Dear Tammy and Bill, Tammy, Bill, You are correct about that this country was set up as a "Republic" but it is also founded under "Democracy" where the majority of the people have control. You are wrong. The only time the "minority" have a say is when as you put it, a "mob" takes control (such as the gay community). I thank God for the Declaration and the Constitution. Both parties are certainly heard but it is the majority that has been right many more times than the "minority." I need not excuse this conclusion, because you cannot refute it, it is history. I affirm the fact that there is a God and He has spoken regarding the laws of morality. if you choose to follow after your carnal state that is your prerogative, but don't "PUSH" your immoral behavior on the MAJORITY of the citizens in this country. The number of sexual predators have risen sharply in these past 10 years, and why? Because God's laws are IGNORED. Look at the number of abortions that have taken place since Roe v. Wade. Just because a few people have pushed their immoral agendas on this country all those who have committed this act out of selfishness (there are exceptions that can be justified) will stand at the Bar of God one day and then what will be their excuse? The number of "expedient' abortions is staggering. In my youth we rarely heard of someone that have "same sex" attraction. This is a sign of corruption in these the last days. These things of which you champion are unGodly. They are not just a 'secular" thing. I would encourage both of you to read the Bible and then ask God if these things are true. Let Him tell you, if you are sincere He will reveal the truth of this matter to you. This is the key by which the Bible was written. it is called personal revelation. I highly recommend it to all of you. Sincerely RLM Dear Tammy and Bill,

Tammy, Bill,

You are correct about that this country was set up as a “Republic” but it is also founded under “Democracy” where the majority of the people have control. You are wrong. The only time the “minority” have a say is when as you put it, a “mob” takes control (such as the gay community). I thank God for the Declaration and the Constitution. Both parties are certainly heard but it is the majority that has been right many more times than the “minority.” I need not excuse this conclusion, because you cannot refute it, it is history.
I affirm the fact that there is a God and He has spoken regarding the laws of morality. if you choose to follow after your carnal state that is your prerogative, but don’t “PUSH” your immoral behavior on the MAJORITY of the citizens in this country. The number of sexual predators have risen sharply in these past 10 years, and why? Because God’s laws are IGNORED. Look at the number of abortions that have taken place since Roe v. Wade. Just because a few people have pushed their immoral agendas on this country all those who have committed this act out of selfishness (there are exceptions that can be justified) will stand at the Bar of God one day and then what will be their excuse? The number of “expedient’ abortions is staggering.
In my youth we rarely heard of someone that have “same sex” attraction. This is a sign of corruption in these the last days. These things of which you champion are unGodly. They are not just a ’secular” thing. I would encourage both of you to read the Bible and then ask God if these things are true. Let Him tell you, if you are sincere He will reveal the truth of this matter to you. This is the key by which the Bible was written. it is called personal revelation. I highly recommend it to all of you.

Sincerely

RLM

]]> By: Instant Tea » Blog Archive » Mormon church defender compares Dallas Voice to Hitler http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6475 Instant Tea » Blog Archive » Mormon church defender compares Dallas Voice to Hitler Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:51:52 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6475 [...] the Mormon church spent nearly $190,000 in support of Proposition 8 has rekindled a fiery debate in the comments thread below. And clearly some Latter-Day Saints have located this blog (probably on church computers). [...] [...] the Mormon church spent nearly $190,000 in support of Proposition 8 has rekindled a fiery debate in the comments thread below. And clearly some Latter-Day Saints have located this blog (probably on church computers). [...]

]]> By: Jared J. H. Catapano http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6474 Jared J. H. Catapano Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:46:19 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6474 If these numbers come out to the sum that we're all fearing (a bit fewer than $100,000), then this is a huge Constitutional issue. We cannot allow ANY religious faction to sway political propositions, especially one that takes away the rights of others. http://activism.ology.com/2009/02/05/lgbt-rights-did-the-mormons-lie/ -Jared J. H. Catapano (ology.com) If these numbers come out to the sum that we’re all fearing (a bit fewer than $100,000), then this is a huge Constitutional issue. We cannot allow ANY religious faction to sway political propositions, especially one that takes away the rights of others.

http://activism.ology.com/2009/02/05/lgbt-rights-did-the-mormons-lie/

-Jared J. H. Catapano (ology.com)

]]> By: Tammye Nash http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6469 Tammye Nash Fri, 06 Feb 2009 19:07:47 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6469 Robert: You are wrong. The United States is not a pure democracy. It is a republic. And in a republic the courts have a responsibility to protect the rights of the minority against the will of the majority. The United States' "founding fathers" deliberately created this country as a republic to protect the minority against the "lynch mob" mentality of a pure democracy. Simple fact. Look it up. Robert:
You are wrong. The United States is not a pure democracy. It is a republic. And in a republic the courts have a responsibility to protect the rights of the minority against the will of the majority.

The United States’ “founding fathers” deliberately created this country as a republic to protect the minority against the “lynch mob” mentality of a pure democracy.

Simple fact. Look it up.

]]> By: Bill in Dallas http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/2009/01/15/proof-that-the-mormon-church-violated-irs-rules-on-prop-8/comment-page-1/#comment-6465 Bill in Dallas Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:57:30 +0000 http://www.dallasvoice.com/instant-tea/?p=3099#comment-6465 When you say get a grip and say the majority votes in the election to elect a President does not compare with a group of people voting on basic civil rights guaranteed under the Constitution. I am being realistic. It boils down to a matter of religion versus goverment. No matter how you reason it or choose to look at it, we are not goverened by biblical law or adultery would be against the law. It's time to put down the bibles and look at this from a broader perspective. It has been proven time and time again that with civil rights, the law has always stepped in where the majority was not in favor. However, after a short period of time this turns around because we are wired to act out on that which we do not know or otherwise fear. Whie it may be true the blacks brought about the passage, I can bet you it was out of religious fear or bias that motivated their actions. In regards to the LDS situation, again, the reason I think they are being so blatantly targeted is their denial or non-disclosure of all their contributions. You can't deny that fact. But instead, people want to divert attention to the majority or what GOD says or something other than the fact that they LIED. And now they are being exposed. If the Catholic Church had done the same thing, you can bet the fire would lit under their pulpits as well. When you say get a grip and say the majority votes in the election to elect a President does not compare with a group of people voting on basic civil rights guaranteed under the Constitution. I am being realistic. It boils down to a matter of religion versus goverment. No matter how you reason it or choose to look at it, we are not goverened by biblical law or adultery would be against the law. It’s time to put down the bibles and look at this from a broader perspective. It has been proven time and time again that with civil rights, the law has always stepped in where the majority was not in favor. However, after a short period of time this turns around because we are wired to act out on that which we do not know or otherwise fear. Whie it may be true the blacks brought about the passage, I can bet you it was out of religious fear or bias that motivated their actions. In regards to the LDS situation, again, the reason I think they are being so blatantly targeted is their denial or non-disclosure of all their contributions. You can’t deny that fact. But instead, people want to divert attention to the majority or what GOD says or something other than the fact that they LIED. And now they are being exposed. If the Catholic Church had done the same thing, you can bet the fire would lit under their pulpits as well.

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