You said: “if there’s no shame, there’s no inequality.” I don’t think that is entirely true. Sure, the shaming of people for being GLBT is wrong, but not so tied to inequality that you can’t have one without the other. Though it does contribute to the belief in inequality.

I agree with you about the religion bit. Religion is the problem. Never yet met an atheist who was against gay rights, or had problems with me being gay. If they did, they never said a damn thing about it, which is fine.

Sounds good. Hop to it. Get ‘er done and get ‘er done well.

Let me know if you need my help. I am all for the new generation of activist. We old fat ones have done the best we could and faced a huge mountain called HIV.
As we age and become less able to get down in the trenches, it is up to younger generation to do it the way they think is best.

I am not suggesting that we should stop, and didn’t intend to imply that. I’m only suggesting that it would behoove us to work on our own tendencies toward discrimination and devaluing one another if we are to criticize straight people for the same actions. Is it reasonable to ask them to meet some kind of standard that we can’t meet ourselves? Again, discrimination is about choosing irrelevant criteria on which to value or not value people. My gayness has no bearing on my value as a citizen or a human being, so it should not be used to determine my rights, privileges, access to services, etc.

The goal should be to eliminate the shame – if there’s no shame, there’s no inequality. So… tactics.

Millions of dollars and countless hours of GLBT effort are spent every year on three main approaches: Political/lobbying, legal/judicial, and protest/demand. All of these address the rights of gays. None of them address how GLBT are “wrong.”

Instead, we should be channeling our resources into an effort that actually tackles the core problem – we as a society allow ourselves to shut off our rational minds and accept that a collection of books from thousands of years ago are telling us the true nature of the universe and morality and the rules by which we should live our lives. We must redefine religion, or the shame will continue. Our politicians are guided by religion. Their constituents are guided by religion. Religion, the only thing that makes gay wrong, is what has oppressed us. Religion has driven those gay teens to suicide. That’s the challenge we have to face – redefine religion to achieve TRUE equality.

Just to let you know that LBGT’s are not the only minorities waiting to receive full respect and acceptance in this country. SO, GET IN LINE WITH THE REST OF US!!!

i am NOT saying that the instant that legislation is passed to give us our full civil rights -BAM- we will be welcomed into general society as beloved friends and homophobia will end. i am saying that until we end legalized govt discrimination we can not even BEGIN to EXPECT that our fellow citizens will respect us as equals and that fact can not go unnoticed by out fellow Americans. Once we attain full legal equality it will make it much easier to gain social equality.

@verity

i still don’t understand why the social discrimination based on physical attractiveness and economic clas should stop us from all fighting for our civil rights. Like I said, classism and “attractiv-ism” exist in all social groups. It is something we, as human beings, should work on but not a barrier to achieving full legal and civil equality.

As I said, we choose criteria, such as physical attractiveness or a person’s annual income, as a basis of assigning them value, of determining if their contributions are worth listening to, if their feelings are worth consideration, and if we want their company. That criteria usually has nothing really to do with a person’s value, just as a person’s sexuality has nothing to do with their value as a human.

I’m not suggesting that we should all get warm and fuzzy and have a giant group hug. People will be rejected and accepted in life, and often based on legitimate criteria, such as honesty, reliability, and sincerity. However, good looks and a fat wallet does necessarily imply honesty, reliabitliy, or sincerity, though we often act AS IF THEY DO.

I have seen good, hard-working, and enthusiastic people marginalized in the community and in these organizations apparently for no other reason because they weren’t cool enough, handsom enough, or popular enough. Why should that be?

@Andrew: I agree with you that obesity is unhealthy (this is common knowledge), and to me, as equally unattractive. But it seems to me that you are assigning value to a person, and his or her contributions, based on attractiveness/healthfulness. Again, there are many reasons why a person may struggle with their weight, including genetics and prescription medications, for example, which often lead to weight gain or loss. What I am suggesting is that a person’s attractiveness should not be the yardstick by which we measure the value of their contributions in our community. But it seems to me that you do. Additionally, I find many physically fit and muscular men to be as equally unattractive. Just because a man has a six pack doesn’t mean that he is de facto attractive, especially, IMO, if he THINKS a six pack makes him attractive.

Also, I strongly disagree with you that the march was a failure or not useful. I don’t personally know Erin Moore or Daniel Cates, but organizing an event like this is a lot of hard work, and a thankless job. All they can do is try to get people to attend, but they cannot ultimately control who does or does not show up. Also, there is no way to judge with a definitive answer whether or not something like this was successful or productive. It just isn’t that easy. It’s not like saying the car runs or it doesn’t run; it’s not an either/or dilemma. The fact that it happened though is kind of a success itself. True, whether it was 300 or 3000, those numbers only reflect a small portion of the total GLBT community in Dallas. More people could have shown up, but there are many reasons why they might not have done so, including work, travel, illness, the heat, being unaware, etc., and the protest organizers have not control over those things, so please don’t criticize them as though they do.

You certainly seem to want everything to be in black and white, but I don’t believe life is that way.

@Rick Wagner. Hmm…your name sounds familiar to me. I think your experiences here are pretty common. One thing that I really dislike about the gay community is that it seems to me that any effort to be friendly and open with someone is always perceived as being a “come on”, when often it is not. I think that that is the biggest hindrance for me in socializing with gay men, even on social networking sites. If you just try to talk, learn about someone, and be friendly, you either end up getting a cold sholder because they don’t find you attractive, or you end up fighting them off with a stick because they do find you attractive, even if your intent was, as I said, just to be friendly and social. I like sex as much as the next person, but why does it always have to be at the forefront of our social dialogue? Can’t I just get to know someone, or let someone get to know me, without being concerned about how much they do or don’t want to sleep with me?

@Chance. No, the bullies will not stop harrassing the gay teen if Congress passes the ENDA, but they won’t stop if ENDA fails either. I’m not sure that I understand what point you are trying to make. It seems to me you you are suggesting that until everything can be worked out to be 100% okay, then nothing matters. If that is correct, then I disagree. We must take what we can get, and keep working for more. Even though their are high school bullies, more US schools have gay/straight alliance clubs now more than ever. Isn’t that worth something?

“Until we are considered equal citizens by our govt how can we ever expect to be treated as equal citizens by our fellow Americans?”

No. If the government says “OK, stop marching, you can have your rights, shhhhh,” we’ve been tolerated. But we’re still “wrong,” “sinners,” and “unnatural.” Roe v. Wade guaranteed rights, but it hasn’t stopped the harassment outside of clinics and the murder of doctors. It hasn’t done a thing to stop the shame.

The bullies in the locker room won’t stop shaming the gay teen just because Congress eventually passed ENDA.

That being said… there is no excuse for not doing everything we can to demand our full civil rights. Until we are considered equal citizens by our govt how can we ever expect to be treated as equal citizens by our fellow Americans?

Instead we find the “potential” hookup by asking questions about their job, material wealth, intelligence, and sex organ size. Why? because after we “bust a nut” they can just zip up and leave with no commitment.. Even if you find a committed person there’s nothing to say that they won’t be messing with others behind your back and looking for something better once their sexual excitement is been satisfied.

As for the Cedar Springs clubs and bars.. If you’re not cute and boinkable.. then you’ll find yourself standing there feeling oh so invisible.. If you try to walk over, say hi and introduce yourself, you usually get nothing more than a “hello” back, see them sip their drink and then walk away without even sharing their name in return. So much for southern hospitality and I dare many of you to say anything different.

Here in 2009 there’s no longer weenie roasts on a weekend grill to help the patrons metabolize some of the booze they’ve consumed and engage in more conversatiuon even though propane gas is cheap and you can get a package of Hot Dogs at Kroger for less than a buck.. What’s with that? (Ummm now that smoking is banned, dontcha think bar owners can think of this?)

Gay community? Huh??? Community of expensive bingo tickets, community of double-priced bottle of beer, loud music you scream over, and the feeling of invisibility or “not measuring up”…

No, I don’t *ever* want to measure up.. I want to celebrate my unique abilities and revel on my artistic talents and respect the unique character of others in return.

I don’t give a crap what religion you are, or how much you own, or what *fabulous* wig you chose to wear with your costume or how many piercings you have in your penis. What I do care is to know whether you live in a glass house of insecurity and how many stones you’ll go out of your way to throw at others when you should be throwing them as yourself.

I don’t have to kiss anyone’s butt cuz they have a PHD and my friends don’t.. Why? Because the friends are hard working, they earn a living, and this bitchy person doesn’t even have a job. And this is supposed to make these community members *superior* ?

Ten years ago, Oaklawn was “the happiest place on earth” with friendly folk who were all interested in friendship and growth. It seems that this has changed into selfishness, distrust, non-commital behavior. Less of us show up at funerals, or even commitment ceremonies but when it comes to legal or political freedom we’re the first to cry for change.

When a ship is sinking the rats are the first ones to leave… Misery loves company… In any group, the poop always floats to the top!

Lately, it seems we have a “community center” with little community.. We have activities and involvement festivites that require money that unemployment checks can no longer justify.

We continue to judge others, like the leather queens, the drag queens, the pagan witches, the nelly men, and the butch women instead of embracing and learning from one another with open arms and the true meaning of the word compassion.

Yet we proclaim to the world that many of us are good christians while church members are investigated for money fraud and choose not to perform last-rites on dieing gay members who made huge contributions in the past?

I was under the understanding that everything in life has a good and a bad balance.. It would seem that laziness, backstabbing, judgment, and ridicule has more meaning in this town than love and compassion. So, now I ask, why should I waste my time getting involved in this foolish behavior? There is no legacy left for the 21 year olds of tomorrow..

The GayBorHood has vaporized and replaced with capitalism and greed. Gay property owners have flipped their homes with great profit, packed up, and moved on to new rural beginnings. Newcommers arrive in search of an economic deal vs. huge prices paid in their prior living place and can care less whether it used to be predominantly gay. It’s new, it’s cheaper than NYC or CA so what!

Now, remind me again what exactally am I marching for? Freedom?

Freedom to marry? Freedom to pay more taxes? Freedom to give higher pay to divorce lawyers? Freedom to pass more judgement? Freedom to ignore the XBOX, Nintendo, anti-social gay kids of tomorrow who can’t write a sentence without abbreviated characters like BFF, TTYL, LMAO ??

Nahhhh, at 47 I think I’ll make another cup of coffee, watch my DVR recorded episode of Queer as Folk and surf the ORGAZMATRON HOOKUP site for 10 minutes of casual relief from a nameless same-sex individual in his virtual closet of raging hormones.

I can do without the Traumatic Brain Injury from police, or the parking costs, or the feeling of isolated emptiness standing in a large group of people with deafening silence.

Yeah, right here in the “Happiest Place On Earth”?

To date, it would seem that ChinaTown and Little Italy are alive and well.. but the *GayBorHoods* of the Nation are becoming a thing of the past.

Ta Ta … Buh Bye….