Gwen Stefani: The gay interview

GwenStefani3Editor’s note: More than 15 years ago, I drove over to Fort Worth to see No Doubt in concert. I was glad I went — not because of No Doubt, which gave a kind of programmatic concert that felt robotic and uninspired — but because that was my first introduction to the opening act: Cake. I’ve been a huge Cake fan ever since. No Doubt? Not so much. Gwen Stefani has never stood out to me as any kind of icon worthy of gay devotion … and I have to say, I feel even more strongly about that after reading Chris Azzopardi’s interview with her, below. What are your opinions about Stefani? And are they changed after reading this?

From bed in her Los Angeles home, Gwen Stefani insists she doesn’t mind doing her first gay press interview in a decade on her day off. “I love talking about myself,” the No Doubt frontwoman says, giggling.

Set to release her third solo album this spring, Stefani rang to open up about her “late in life” introduction to the gay community, the lesson she’s teaching her boys when she paints their nails and how hubby Gavin Rossdale has broadened her worldview.

Dallas Voice: You were raised Roman Catholic in infamously conservative Orange County. Considering this upbringing, what was your introduction to the gay community?  Gwen Stefani: That’s a really good question. I’m going back in my brain. When did I get introduced? I think my first friend that I had was Mathu Andersen — that was pretty late in life. He’s a makeup artist that I met doing the “Ex-Girlfriend” video [in 2000], and he was with this guy Zaldy, a designer who’d eventually work on L.A.M.B. with me. Then Mathu introduced me to Danilo, who ended up being my hairdresser, who introduced me to Gregory Arlt, my [current] makeup artist.

These guys have become some of my closest friends over the years, and also the team that have helped me creatively on so many levels. It’s interesting how it feels. All the people that I’ve met in the gay community in my particular life have just been very creative people and people that have just been friends to me in a way that I haven’t had in my life before that. It’s hard to put into words. I don’t know how to describe it, but it’s interesting because we can talk about so many things that we are all interested in and yet it’s different from having a guy friend or a girlfriend. It’s like having a creative partner.

When No Doubt first hit the scene, you were known for your tomboy image. Because of your style, were there times you were mistaken as a lesbian?  I don’t remember there ever being too many rumors about that. I think everybody knew my story, because when Tragic Kingdom came out I had broken up with Tony [Kanal], so everybody knew that “Don’t Speak” and all those songs were about that, so I think that’s probably why [there weren’t rumors]. I was so young when all that started. I mean, I started the band when I was 17.

The way you’ve personally subverted gender norms seems to have influenced your three boys. You’ve gone with your oldest, Kingston, to get manis; also, he wore a tutu on his birthday. As a parent, what importance do you place on showing your kids about self-express?  It’s one of those things where, it’s not like I don’t think about it, but they’re used to being around me, and I’m always doing my hair, makeup, nails. Their whole life is, like, sitting on my lap while I’m doing that surrounded by three gay men who are on me the entire time. [Laughs] It’s just normal for them. What I like to say is that being unique and original is what makes me happy, and I think that rubs off on them. My sons did nails just the other day, and the only reason was because their nails were so disgusting! Like, they were in the mud and I was like, “We have got to do your nails!

I literally have 400 bottles of nail polish, so they took them all out and put them all over the bathroom. We … did tiger stripe nails. I said to Kingston, “Are you sure you wanna do pink, because you’re gonna go to school tomorrow? Are you sure you’re not gonna be embarrassed?” He said, “No, I don’t care; it’s a cool color.”

I just love that. It’s really important more than anything else to not be talked into something, to stand your ground and to be able to be strong about what you feel. That’s what I like and that’s what I want them to learn — that being individual and being unique is important. Don’t be scared of that. I don’t want them to try to be like everyone else, and at that age, everybody just wants to have the same shoes everybody else has, and I don’t really like that. If they do want to, I’ll support that as well. You just want them to be happy. It’s a short life and it goes by so quick.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Robbie Rogers: The gay interview

Robbie Rogers Celebrates The Release Of His Memoir "Coming Out To Play"Out soccer star Robbie Rogers on sports homophobia, closeted players and ESPN’s ‘ridiculous’ locker room coverage

By Chris Azzopardi

Ever since Robbie Rogers came out in early 2013, the soccer player has been intent on changing sports culture the best way he knows how: by being himself.

Rogers shares his story in Coming Out to Play, a book co-written with Eric Marcus (Breaking the Surface, co-authored with Greg Louganis) on the L.A. Galaxy player’s journey from closeted Catholic to barrier breaker. The first openly gay male athlete to win a big-time team pro sports title in the U.S., Rogers talks being “sad” about the lack of out athletes, homophobia in sports and how stories on LGBT-focused locker room behavior set the gay community back.

Dallas Voice: What was the most rewarding thing you learned about yourself while writing this book?  Robbie Rogers: I learned a lot about myself writing this, but I don’t know what the most rewarding is. When I wrote about my childhood, and just talking about how closeted I was, how things really scarred me and, obviously, being very afraid to be open with people, I think I learned from all that that I needed to be more open with people and learn from all those experiences. Without working through all those stories and writing all that down, I don’t think I would’ve been as aware of it. So, while I was writing the book, I realized, “Gosh, I need to share things more often with people and talk about things and be open,” which doesn’t come naturally to me. I’m a very shy, quiet person, actually. The most rewarding thing for myself, I think, was to just realize that and try to work on it during this past year, and to continue to work on it.

In the book’s prologue, you say, “I’ve been uncomfortable with the shorthand versions of my life that I’ve seen and read.” What do you hope to clarify?  When I came out, there weren’t details: all the struggle, why it took me so long and what was going on behind the scenes in the soccer locker room. And there are a lot of gay men and women around the world who know how tough it is — it’s very difficult to be closeted, and then to open up and be honest with people, and then to come to terms with yourself. So, I just wanted to add all the details of the story and talk about why it was so difficult for me. There were articles written like, “Oh, he’s out, he’s happy, he’s playing, everything’s good,” and it’s like, “No — there’s so much more to the story.”

There’s an assumption that men’s sports are not welcoming to LGBT athletes, or even threatened by them. Is this due to the fact that people didn’t know what would happen until someone came out?  Yeah, that’s the big thing: People don’t know what’s gonna happen. People are afraid, obviously, that things might change for them. I don’t necessarily think that the majority of athletes are homophobic, but I think there’s that mentality in the locker room.

From my experience, all the guys that I heard homophobic things from growing up were the first ones to call me, text me and support me [when I came out]. Athletes themselves are not homophobic; the sports culture is. As an out professional soccer player, people are sensitive. They know there’s a gay guy in their locker room and they’re not saying homophobic things. Instead, we’re discussing marriage equality. But when there isn’t an out soccer player — a guy that they know is gay — in the locker room, I’m sure things are being said that are homophobic. Again, I know it’s ridiculous for me to say, but it’s not necessarily because [players are] homophobic, but they’re not educated to be sensitive to what they’re saying. Someone might argue that that’s homophobic, but these guys are very loving and supportive of me, and I think if anyone in the locker room did come out; [other players] would be very supportive of them. But it’s that lack of knowledge and education about the LGBT community, and about mental health and just being sensitive to other people, that I think is the issue.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Ben Whishaw: The gay interview

Ben Whishaw, right, in ‘Lilting’

As our final lead-up to The Hollywood Issue on Friday, we offer up an interview with the notoriously private Ben Whishaw, who — aside from his work in films like Skyfall and Cloud Atlas — will be appearing soon in Paddington and the supernatural drama LiltingLawrence Ferber tracked down Whishaw and Lilting’s writer/director Hong Khaou.

Lost in translation

Language isn’t the only barrier that stands between a gay man and the non-English-speaking mother of his dead, closeted boyfriend in Lilting.

The feature debut of Cambodian-British writer/director Hong Khaou, this elegant chamber drama stars acclaimed British actor Ben Whishaw (Skyfall, Cloud Atlas) as Richard, who enlists a translator and attempts to forge a bond with Cambodian-Chinese Junn (Hong Kong actress Cheng Pei Pei of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon), the retirement home-bound, prickly mother of his recently deceased partner, Kai (Andrew Leung). Although Junn and Richard mourn the same person, Kai never came out or divulged the nature of his “friendship” to mom, and the jaded, sourpuss Junn disliked Richard from the get-go .…

Khaou previously worked for London-based LGBT film distributor, Peccadillo Pictures, and directed a pair of acclaimed short films, Spring and Summer. Thanks to his experience watching and distributing queer-themed films, he learned a few important lessons to apply to his own delve into feature filmmaking. “I wanted to make sure the kissing was correct,” he shares. “I remember having a conversation about that with the actors. It’s such a difficult detail to get right. I understand certain actors, if not gay, they have that trepidation, but if you’re an actor and take on kissing, you want to make sure to convey it correctly. I was very aware the kissing was right!”

Khaou shot the indie film over a tightly scheduled 17 days. Specifically citing John Sayles’ 1996 Texas-set feature Lone Star and 2011’s Martha Marcy May Marlene as cinematic influences on Lilting, Khaou also drew heavily from his own family life when writing the script. Born in Cambodia, his family fled to England during the 80s while he was a child. His mother struggled to learn English upon arrival, and even now has trouble with the language. One thing she does understand, however, is that her son is gay. “Her reaction [to my coming out] was fine,” Khaou says. “The build up was agonizing. I was shaking and petrified, but having told her she was fine.”

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Kiesza: The gay interview


Continuing our lead-up to The Hollywood Issue this week, we chat with “Hideaway” singer Kiesza, who’s long be an ally to the gay community. But is she more an Mariah or Whitney fan?  — Chris Azzopardi

Even before making the streets of New York City her own private dance floor for “Hideaway,” Kiesza was courting the queers. The lead single off the 25-year-old’s major-label debut, Sound of a Woman, has certainly boosted her appeal within the community — who could resist the sports bra and suspenders look? — but the gays and this former sniper-in-training for the Canadian Army actually go way back.

On her way to the airport, Kiesza called to chat about pretend-marrying her gay best friend, how Barbra Streisand taught her to sing and her request for the drag queens.

Dallas Voice: Have you been feeling the gay love yet?  Kiesza: I’ve been feeling it before any other love, actually. Even before “Hideaway,” when I was doing other projects, the gay community was always the community that supported me as a brand new artist. I always felt supported by the gay community before anyone else, so it’s a really special community to me.

When did you know the gay community was in love with you?  I would actually meet the people who were coming to my shows and it showed me who my audience was, and I had a very strong gay following, which is amazing. They’re so enthusiastic, and they come dressed in clothes that emulate my own style. They’re always going the extra mile.

You know you’ve made it when guys are doing you in drag.  Yeah, I saw some people doing “Hideaway” in drag, which is amazing. I wanna go to a drag show and see someone performing “Hideaway” live!

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Jeffrey Tambor of ‘Transparent:’ The gay interview

Our Hollywood Issue comes out Friday, so we thought we’d do a lead-up with celebrity interviews from the world of entertainment. Kicking everything off? Our Chris Azzopardi‘s piece on the controversial new streaming series Transparent, where he talks to star Jeffrey Tambor and associate producer Zackary Drucker (herself MTF). 

When a show makes its mark on society, it’s more than just TV — it’s history.

In 2014, we met Maura, the protagonist of the brazen, boundary-breaking Transparent, a dramedy centered on a 70-something male-to-female’s journey in coming out to her family. Written by Jill Soloway (Six Feet Under) and produced by Amazon with a standout lead performance from Jeffrey Tambor, the show is being heralded as an Emmy contender for its authentic look at trans life.

Dallas Voice: Jeffrey, what drew you to the Maura character?  Jeffrey Tambor: I was coming into Los Angeles from my home in New York, and I was doing a talk show and my representatives, who are tremendous, are always on the lookout for really good things. They sent me this script by Jill Soloway, and I got off the plane — I had about a 15-minute drive to my hotel — and by the time I got to the hotel, I had read this. I called them and I said, “I’m in, I’m in, I’m in. Let me meet Jill.”

Jill and I met the next day — we had a great meeting — and then that afternoon I saw her movie Afternoon Delight, and I called her again. You know, in the pilot, I don’t have that big of a role, but you could just see how beautiful that family and their dynamic was. You could see that Jill was after big themes, but the people were so real, so authentic and so accessible, and so I just said, “I’m in.”

Even though your role is slight during the pilot, your presence is massive.  Tambor: Thank you. The key scene, I think, in that pilot is around that table. That barbecue scene — I could watch that on a loop for the rest of my life. I remember when we were filming that and every face I looked into was just filled with genius and light and quicksilver moods. It’s really a real coup of casting.

With so few representations of transgender people in the media, and trans visibility being at the forefront culturally, what kind of responsibility did you feel to Maura and to the trans community?  Tambor: A huge responsibility. I had nervous self-tappings on my shoulder the whole time. I don’t think I have been as nervous as when I did the scene when I had to come out to my daughter Sarah [Amy Landecker]. I was shaking, and not because I was nervous about being good, or nervous about being talented, or nervous about learning the lines — I wanted to do it right. I turned to Jill many times during the making of this, and to Zackary and [co-producer] Rhys Ernst many times, and said, “This is big. This is huge.” You would feel it at times and think, “This is so much more than all of us put together. This is a big movement.”

Zackary Drucker: Jeffrey brings a tremendous amount of humanity to this role, and from a very internal place without falling into stereotypes or tropes of other representations of trans people that we’ve seen. I think that this show is a huge step in the right direction, and as a trans person, I have a lot of hope, actually, that there are many more to come. This is one big step for bringing trans people into pop culture and into television and film.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Lisa Kudrow: The gay interview

LisaKudrow3By Chris Azzopardi

Ten years without our favorite cupcake-wearing gonzo, Valerie Cherish, is 10 years too long. But the wait’s over. You were heard.

A decade after The Comeback —the hilariously cringe-y HBO trailblazer that lasted just one season in 2005, starring Lisa Kudrow as Val, a D-lister reaching for (everything underneath) the stars — was axed, it has returned to the network this week … with the Friends actress back as our beloved hot mess.

We chatted with Kudrow — who also has her fourth season on Showtime’s Web Therapy under her belt — about “superhuman” gays, her own comeback and the future of Romy & Michele.

Dallas Voice: Lisa, you don’t know how tempting it is to say “hello” three times to you right now. How often do people quote Valerie in your presence? And how often are they gay men?  Lisa Kudrow: Frequently and frequently. You know who the next group is after gay men? College students.

Are you surprised by that?  I was surprised … until I got used to it! But it’s fantastic. That’s really thrilling, and then it struck me: Well, of course! They grew up with Housewives of everywhere, and people humiliating themselves on reality TV. When The Comeback first came out, I think that gay men were the only ones who were like, “Yes. I understand. I get it. It’s great, and I understand.”

You know, those are the people I care about the most — the people who really loved the show. That was my only fear after it was all done. Doing it, writing it, shooting it, it was, “Yeah, this is right, this is right.” Then afterwards, “Uh oh, what if it’s not?”

When it comes to Valerie Cherish, what is it about her exactly that we gay men are so drawn to?  I’ve been asking myself that too — not ’cause it’s a mystery, but I wonder why. I was watching Will & Grace once and there was this hilarious episode where Karen’s at a theater and she throws her flask and it hits someone in the head, and there’s this joke that gay men wouldn’t care because, “Eh, all in a day.” Getting, like, smacked with something is “all in a day.” So I wonder if that’s what it is — because Valerie gets, you know, humiliated, or humiliates herself, all the time. And it’s like, “Yeah, well, that’s the world.”

The other thing that I love about Valerie is, “All right, someone said something not nice, but you know what? Can’t use that. Got this other thing I gotta do.” She just ignores that that happened and keeps going.

That’s what it is too: She perseveres.  Completely perseveres! You can agree with her goal or not, but she’s got it and nothing is getting in her way. There’s something admirable about that; there just is. Except, you know, she’s willing to put up with a lot.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Patty Griffin: The gay interview

Patty1Editor’s note: Patty Griffin, the Texas-based singer-songwriter, will perform in Dallas on Thursday at the Majestic with blues legend Mavis Staples. We sat down with the artist to talk about her two albums released in 2014, and her gay fans.

By Chris Azzopardi

There are singers, there are songwriters … and then there’s Patty Griffin. Not only has the celebrated songstress been praised for her versatility, Griffin’s untouchable talent has earned her a Grammy and landed her material on releases from some of the industry’s biggest names. For artists seeking poetic musings (and really sad songs), Griffin is a go-to. And besides, the Dixie Chicks, Kelly Clarkson, Bette Midler and Emmylou Harris have all given a second life to the writer’s rootsy tunes.

Griffin’s own catalogue, though, is immense, and just this last year she added two more gems to her repertoire: American Kid, a work of staggering genius that, not surprisingly, topped many best-of lists, and Silver Bell, her “lost” LP, shelved by her then-label, that was released 13 years after she recorded it. She’ll perform (probably from both albums) alongside Mavis Staples at the Majestic on Nov. 13.

From her hometown down the road in Austin, Griffin — who also draws inspiration from her spouse, Led Zeppelin legend Robert Plant — chatted about feeling like a “weirdo,” which song of hers helped a kid come out to his parents and getting over her religious prejudices to record a gospel album. — Chris Azzopardi

Dallas Voice: American Kid is obviously very connected to your late father, who was dying as you were writing it. What is the most difficult song for you to get through live? Patty Griffin: I don’t think I have a great deal of difficulty getting through them. My emotional response varies from night to night, and there are times when that can make it hard to sing, but there hasn’t been one in particular that’s gotten me too emotional to sing. It’s all emotional.

It’s been really great to have songs in my own life that speak about him. I didn’t think about it at the time, about honoring him; I was just trying to get myself through him passing away. I didn’t think about how great it would be later to tell his story, at least from my point of view. I don’t know how thrilled he’d be about some of these things!

How is creating and performing music a catharsis for you? To me, it’s just my nature. It’s how I’m built. I feel like I have to do it, you know? I think anybody who’s a musician who gets to be 50 and is still a musician, that’s really how they’re built. They really have to do it. So it’s very second nature to me. It’s really, really not hard for me to express myself that way.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Laurie Metcalf: The gay interview

LaurieMetcalf1Laurie Metcalf talks roles on gay-inclusive sitcoms. By Chris Azzopardi

There’s no question that Roseanne, a show centered on the Conner family, was one of the most influential sitcoms of all time. Just look: Gay marriage is now as trendy as Jackie Harris’ hipster-desired mom couture.

Two decades later, meet The McCarthys, CBS’ primetime comedy about a zany sports-crazed Bostonian family. One of the sons, Ronny, is gay, and the clan’s matriarch is Laurie Metcalf, who played Jackie on Roseanne (and, in case you forgot, was outed during the show’s finale in 1997).

Metcalf recently chatted with our Chris Azzopardi about how The McCarthys — which debuts tonight at 8:30 p.m. on CBS — has made her feel like she’s “missing out” on a real-life gay son, the lesbian kiss on Roseanne that caused a stir, and her own lip-lock with a stage icon, her first time kissing a woman (she thinks).

Dallas Voice: Between HBO’s Getting On and now The McCarthys — and not counting , guest shots on The Big Bang Theory — you’re spoiling us, Laurie. It’s so good to have you back on TV.  Laurie Metcalfe:  Thanks so much. Yeah, it’s been a long time. I’m spoiled myself right now; I’ve got two wonderful projects. But yeah, I’ve been doing mostly just theater for the past six years.

Which do you prefer: TV or theater?  I have to say, I prefer stage, probably because it’s where I came up. I feel like I understand it best, and I like the immediate gratification of a live audience. You know, it’s been so long since I’ve been on a multi-camera show that it just felt like home walking back onto that set, so that was fantastic. I didn’t think one of those would come back around!

What drew you to The McCarthysFirst of all, I love that multi-camera format. It’s a very collaborative way of working, because you’re in there with the writers, and everybody is trying to contribute to making the show the best it can be on Friday nights for the audience. It’s a group effort, and I really like working that way. Then I talked to Brian Gallivan, the showrunner, who I adore. He came up from Second City, so I felt we had a little something in common. And he’s fantastic. So calm, so supportive and so wonderful to work with. [The scripts] went through so many changes that I know were very difficult for all the writers involved. He’s just a really fantastic leader and he sets the tone for the whole project, and he’s super funny.

Especially as “Sassy Gay Friend.”  When we first talked, I said I was a huge fan of that character and he’s like, “Are you kidding me?” Then we agreed that Sassy Gay Friend should do an intervention at some point on Jackie from Roseanne. Wouldn’t that be great?

Absolutely. You gotta make that happen. Speaking of Jackie, do you find it amusing that her mom style is now a fashion trend among hipsters? That sounds about right! I mean, it’s about time. We had our 25th-year anniversary [in October 2013], for God’s sake.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Andrew Scott: The gay interview

PRIDEBy Chris Azzopardi

Editor’s note: If you’ve seen Andrew Scott in the BBC miniseries Sherlock, you already know (1) he’s a hottie; (2) he’s scary as hell as Sherlock’s insane nemesis Prof. Jim Moriarty. But you might also have seen him in the new film Pride, which, sadly, closes today after a brief run at the Angelika. Our Chris Azzopardi chatted with the recently-out 38-year-old Irishman.

Dallas Voice: For you, how does it feel being part of a movie that’s moved so many people in the gay community?  Andrew Scott: It’s extraordinary, really. We’re all completely blown over by it. The response we’re hearing from cinemas across the country, where people are standing up at the end and they’re clapping — it’s just very unusual for me. I’ve certainly never been in a film before where that happens.

People just feel very inspired by it, and they have very passionate feelings toward it. So yeah, I’m thrilled about that — thrilled [it’s being embraced] not just by the gay community, but by a lot of different audiences. We kind of really hoped that the gay community would embrace it, but we keep saying that it’s not just a gay movie. The message — the idea of solidarity — isn’t just for a gay audience. All of us are more similar to each other than we think we are.

Pride demonstrates strength in numbers, which seems especially relevant now that the gay rights movement is in full swing and more straight allies are standing up with us. As the fight for equality marches on, what do you see as the relevancy of this story right now?  Being gay isn’t something in and of itself that’s a virtue any more than being straight is, but the attributes that gay people develop as a result of being gay – mainly empathy toward other people, and compassion and tolerance — those are things to be proud of. It’s a real message that I find really heartwarming. To segregate people is very dangerous in the struggle for gay rights for people across the way. Inclusivity rather than exclusivity. We must celebrate our differences, and we must celebrate our humanity as well as our sexuality.

You recently spoke out against the notion of “playing gay,” which is obviously something you feel strongly about.  You can’t. It’s absolutely impossible to play that as an actor. If someone were to play me in a film about my life, I would hate for just gay actors to audition for the role, because I think I could potentially have attributes as much in common with a straight actor as I could with a gay actor.

You can really make a general wash of people’s sexuality [and say] that people are exactly the same. But the attributes I possess as a human being could be represented by anybody with human sexuality, really, if they have the chief attributes that an actor needs, which are empathy and imagination. So, I do think it’s very important that those things are mentioned, that a human being is made up of a whole range of things and sexuality is, of course, one of them, but it’s not the sum total.

Which straight actor would you want playing you in a film?  Oh, I have no idea! That thought terrifies me! The fact that I can’t even get an audition for that part terrifies me even more.

—  Arnold Wayne Jones

Sinead O’Connor: The gay interview

Sinead2In 1992, Sinéad O’Connor was at the height of her career following the success of her single “Nothing Compares 2 U” when, during a one-woman protest against sexual abuse in the Catholic Church, she tore up a pic of Pope John Paul II on Saturday Night Live. Causing an uproar, and eventually thwarting her pop-culture presence (not that she cared), that defiance would come to define the Irish singer’s life and career.

More than 20 years later, O’Connor found herself entangled in more controversy — this time with Miley Cyrus, who became the target of the Grammy winner’s digs last year. The two famously feuded in 2013 over the music business, when Sinead warned the twerker that it “will prostitute you for all you are worth” (per O’Connor’s people, questions about the viral brawl were off-limits for this interview).

Does Sinéad have balls? Of course she does — big ones. She talked with our Chris Azzopardi about that region during our recent conversation, insisting that sex — whether it’s with a man or a woman — isn’t necessary for making her “dick hard.” Still, she lets it all hang out on her 10th studio album, I’m Not Bossy, I’m the Boss — which drops today — candidly revealing that, Everybody wants something from me / They rarely ever wanna just know me.

The exception: this chat, during which Sinéad recalled her introduction to the gay community — and how that community gave her the courage to be herself, speak out and “take shit.”

Dallas Voice:  With regard to this album and your last, 2012’s How About I Be Me (And You Be You)?, you’ve been on a mission to find yourself. What kind of sacrifices and choices did you have to make on that journey to self-actualization?  O’Connor: Gosh, god, I don’t know. I suppose it’s the same for everybody. It’s not like you’re suddenly there and you don’t have any more work to do; it’s a life’s work for all of us, isn’t it? It doesn’t finish until you get to the other side. I think, actually, the things that help you self-actualize are the mistakes — so-called “mistakes.” I don’t like that word. But the things that you get wrong is how you learn to get things right. 

—  Arnold Wayne Jones